Maximus Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 Does the book include French and Polish AFVs??? If so, then great. Wanna check out those Char.Bois (sp?) tanks. Whoops, forgot to mention that I have ordered it from Amazon.com and I'll hopefully get it next week, for it takes 2-3 days for them to ship it. And then 3-7 days for delivery. Haven't got my shipping confirmation email yet, so.... ------------------ "Live by the sword, live a good LOOONG life!"-Minsc, BGII "Boo points, I punch."--Minsc, BGII [This message has been edited by Maximus (edited 01-03-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harv Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 Nope. Harv ------------------ Get The CM Scenario Database Here: http://wbr.thegamers.net/boots_tracks/index.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawBroon Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 It's B1Bis Maximus. Supposed to be The Beast at the time. Can't wait for CM4 to play decent french... Here is for those not knowing the baby: Although the B1bis battle tank was impervious to the 37mm German anti-tank rounds, combat experience during the western campaign of 1940 would revealed two major weaknesses in the B1bis battle tank. The first weak point was just over the hull 75mm gun: AT rounds were found to ricochet on the frontal upper hull armor ending in the turret ring blocking the turret. The biggest weakness of the B1bis tank was the ventilation grate located on the left side of the tank as seen on the last pic above. This weak spot in the B1bis armor would easily be located by german antitank gunners since it would be blackened by engine fumes. During the course of the campaign in the west, the german gunners would receive the order to aim at the black rectangle. These flank shots would be facilitated by the french tactical doctrine which required the B1bis to attack, moving in zig-zag. Here are the specs: Combat Weight (tons): 32.0 Dimensions Length (m): 6.50 Width (m): 2.50 Height (m): 2.80 Ground Clearance (m): 0.45 Crew:4 (Hull: 3; Turret: 1) Negociated Obstacles Ground Pressure (kg/cm2): 0.85 Fording Depth (m): 0.72 Performance Maximum Speed: (km/hr): 28 Range on road (km): 140 Range Cross Country (km): 100 Armament Main Gun (cm/caliber): 47L/32 Main Gun ammunition: 50 Hull Gun (cm/caliber): 75L/17 Hull Gun ammunition: 74 Machine Guns: 2 M.G. ammunition: 5100 Armor: Rolled Hull / Cast Turret Hull front (mm): 60/45° Turret front (mm): 55/0° Hull side (mm): 55/0° Turret side (mm): 45/22° Hull rear (mm): 55/0° Turret rear (mm): 45/22° Hull roof (mm): 20/90° Turret roof (mm): 30/90° Hull belly (mm): 20/90° Note: the driver front plate was at 20° That's it. I guess you needed a french to be that thourough about a B1... :-D ------------------ I just told a Cesspooler to do a search. I feel like Jeff H... Hiram Sedai [This message has been edited by PawBroon (edited 01-03-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 He He... I just ordered that book PLUS the Encyclopedia Of German Tanks of WWII today. Can't wait for them to get here. I actually had both on an X-Mas list, but had to end up ordering them now because no-one could find 'em for X-Mas. Seems Amazon is getting swamped w/ orders for these two books lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawBroon Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 Aww shuck, it was a Grog post. Me, the Pilgrim of Fierce Historical Innacurracies. I feel all weak at the knees... Either that or I'm pregnant. Now if the Bald Bouncer could padlock me before I do others like this one. ------------------ I just told a Cesspooler to do a search. I feel like Jeff H... Hiram Sedai [This message has been edited by PawBroon (edited 01-03-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 [This message has been edited by Tiger (edited 01-03-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted January 3, 2001 Author Share Posted January 3, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PawBroon: It's B1Bis Maximus. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yep, that's the ticket. ------------------ "Live by the sword, live a good LOOONG life!"-Minsc, BGII "Boo points, I punch."--Minsc, BGII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Nice pics, Paw. You take 'em? I notice the mark of a riccochet on the starboard front face of the turret. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Apportez-l'ici, bebe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 Hey Max! Did your book ship yet? Mine are still awaiting shipping... Says they won't arrive till between the 10th and 17th. I'm calling in fire on Amazon now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted January 5, 2001 Author Share Posted January 5, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr. Clark: Hey Max! Did your book ship yet? Mine are still awaiting shipping... Says they won't arrive till between the 10th and 17th. I'm calling in fire on Amazon now...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I still haven't got my shipping confirmation email yet. I ordered it this last Monday evening. Got my order confirmation email the next morning I believe. I've got another order pending also, but the item hasn't been released yet. I ordered the new Frank Herbert's Dune TV-mini-series that was shown on the Sci-Fi channel last month. It's due out on the 23rd. [This message has been edited by Maximus (edited 01-05-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 I've heard that mini-series was pretty sweet. So many TV channels I don't get... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawBroon Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 Since that thread popped up again I shall highlight the fact that I am nowhere to be seen in front of the B1Bis like so many PoolNerds a wee whiley. Chup I miss your blue sweater. Please act accordingly. ------------------ I just told a Cesspooler to do a search. I feel like Jeff H... Hiram Sedai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt.Tom Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 I ordered it at the beginning of the week and I just got the shipping confirm e-mail today, you might want to check your e-mail again. Pvt.Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted January 7, 2001 Author Share Posted January 7, 2001 I just got a mesage saying that they're having trouble obtaining a copy from the supplier and that my order will be delayed a week or two. Damn, I'll probably get my Dune tapes before I get the damn book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 I got my copy a couple months ago from The Military Book Club no sweat. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schulz Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 Fellas I ordered both books from Barnes and Noble online on the 4th after reading so much about them from everyone and recieved them 2 days later on the 6th with no delay....as a matter of fact the site shows weather they are on hand and they both currently are... ------------------ "D-Day was a nightmare. Even now it brings pain to recall what happened there on June 6, 1944. I have returned many times to honor the valiant men who died on that beach. They should never be forgotten. Nor should those who lived to carry the day by the slimmest of margins. Every man who set foot on Omaha Beach that day was a hero." General Omar Bradley- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted January 8, 2001 Share Posted January 8, 2001 Grumble! I have not received that message yet, but if I do, I'm cancelling from Amazon and trying B&N. Amazon DOES note that my Encyclopedia of German Tanks in WWII is ready to ship, as soon as they find the Allied one... sigh... It's becoming kind of like waiting for CM to show up, except that took much less time, and I still have CM to play now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted January 11, 2001 Author Share Posted January 11, 2001 Well I got my Shipping Confirmation email this afternoon, so it didn't take them long to finally get it. Just a week or so late from when it should have been shipped in the first place. I ordered it on the 1st, should have been shipped on the 3rd. But now it has been shipped on the 10th. UPS tracking number is showing that I'll get it on the 12th, which I seriously doubt though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted January 11, 2001 Share Posted January 11, 2001 You specs don't dwell on the biggest problem with the French tanks, which wasn't kinks in their armor but that one-man turret. The short 75 in the hull is meant to shoot up infantry and guns with HE. Vs. tanks, the higher velocity 47 in the turret is supposed to do the job. But the tank commander has to load that gun, aim it, fire it, tell the driver where to go, find targets, rotate the turret itself, etc. Way too much work for one guy. And the turret is physically tiny, but must accomodate the commander, the recoiling gun, its breech block, room to load the ammo with the block open, etc. They also put only 1 radio in each tank platoon, thinking that would be enough. By comparison, the Germans used 2-3 man turrets (other than the Pz I MG tank), with at least distinct commander and gunner, and often a seperate loader too, with a smaller caliber gun thus easier ammo handling as well. The French tanks proved that heavy armor and high caliber armament were not the key to effective tanks. For their day, they had those things. The Germans had larger crews, faster rates of fire, more radios, and faster tanks, above all better tank doctrine of course - and beat the tar out of them. But they'd be fun to play with, of course. So long as whatever system is used models those over-tasked French tank commanders - now there is an unsung, impossible, and much put-upon job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted January 11, 2001 Share Posted January 11, 2001 I canned my order from Amazonia, and ordered from Barnes & Noble instead. They shipped on the 10th, so now it's up to UPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawBroon Posted January 11, 2001 Share Posted January 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jasoncawley@ameritech.net: You specs don't dwell on the biggest problem with the French tanks, which wasn't kinks in their armor but that one-man turret. The short 75 in the hull is meant to shoot up infantry and guns with HE. Vs. tanks, the higher velocity 47 in the turret is supposed to do the job. But the tank commander has to load that gun, aim it, fire it, tell the driver where to go, find targets, rotate the turret itself, etc. Way too much work for one guy. And the turret is physically tiny, but must accomodate the commander, the recoiling gun, its breech block, room to load the ammo with the block open, etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Right on all counts for the H39 and S35 but you're wrong for that particular baby up here. Here are how the crew were used: >> 1 driver who was also the 75 mm gunner (he could adjust the gun elevation using a crank located on his right and azimut by turning the tracks). He had one forward episcope and two lateral slits. To aim the 75 mm gun, he could use a binocular telescopic sight. >> 1 loader, sitting being the 75 mm gun. The loader was also in charge of manning the hull MG. >> 1 radio, sitting at the bottom of the turret, manning the ER53 radio. He could also pass ammo to the tank leader. >> 1 tank leader, who was alone manning the electric APX4 turret. He could sit on a jump seat and use a rotary cupola with 1 periscope and 2 fixed episcopes. To aim the 47 mm gun or the coaxial MG, he used a single telescopic sight (x4). The TC was indeed an overburdenned poor sod in most case, but at least was he not manning that 75mm... The worst thing we french did with them is that we engaged them piecemeal instead of grouping them like the german did. It was cultural from our Napoleon days. Infantry IS all. Thus tanks are supports. ------------------ You are not Obsessive-CMpulsive, you are Allied-Retentive. Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted January 13, 2001 Share Posted January 13, 2001 YAY! I finally got my 2 books today! I can already say I HIGHLY recommend them to anyone who plays CM or has any interest what-so-ever in WWII AFV's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted January 13, 2001 Share Posted January 13, 2001 "1 tank leader, who was alone manning the electric APX4 turret. He could sit on a jump seat and use a rotary cupola with 1 periscope and 2 fixed episcopes. To aim the 47 mm gun or the coaxial MG, he used a single telescopic sight (x4)." Um, read what I said. That is what I said. The 75/18 is the infantry-smacker. 18 calibers, a stubby little howitzer to toss HE. The 47/32 is the "hole punch" for enemy tanks. And the tank commander gets to - read my list, I said most of the things he has to do. Tell the driver where to go, spot the enemy, run the turret, put the round in, train the sight, level his bubbles both ways. Impossible. They simply did not think that tank to tank combat would be the main deal when they designed that tank. They gave it a gun for that, because they knew it could happen. But they thought the main thing would be reducing strong points for the infantry - MG nests mostly - with the HE in that hull mounted howitzer. While stopped. Well, it wasn't that kind of war, that is all. And the result was the main event had to be accomplished by one man running the entire freaking tank, practically. While his German counterpart picked targets and places to manuever and thought about where the rest of his platoon was and how to work around somebody's flank, and directed his gunner and driver to carry out the tasks that involved, the French tank commander was leveling his bubbles or fishing for a shell hand-off and blind as a bat to everything not in his immediate sight picture (if that), while the rest of his crew prayed. As a Frenchman said of a certain cavalry formation at Balaclava, "c'est magnifique - mais ce n'est pas la guerre." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted January 13, 2001 Share Posted January 13, 2001 I have the hard cover versions of both books. You WON'T find better references, period! You guys are lucky to get them so cheap!!!!! Thank god for reprints, hey? Another good book that covers all tanks from beginning to end is "World Encyclopedia of The Tank" by Christopher Chant. Unfortunately, it only covers turreted tanks, but its 392 pages of info is excellent. Printed 1994, ISBN 1 85260 114 0....... Ski ------------------ "The Lieutenant brought his map out and the old woman pointed to the coastal town of Ravenoville........" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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