Jackal Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Situation: During a current PBEM (where I am getting my ass handed to me)I have run into a single hetzer that has practically smoked my entire armor force. At the start of Turn 1 I had four shermans (76mm I believe) and two M8 Greyhounds as my armor force. The lone hetzer managed to destroy one vehicle a turn until all but one M8 remained. Now, the range was roughly 500 meters and the engagement allowed the hetzer to be at the apex of the "V" with my armor located at the ends. I never destroyed the hezter. My question: What would be your thoughts on this encounter? selection of armor to counter a hetzer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lord General MB Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Soldier, My thoughts: Premote that Hetzer! And you're fired. Sorry. ------------------ Salute! Lord General Mr. Bill Supreme Commander 1st Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Go around it or get a flank shot. Make it move - SP TDs are useless when they're moving. -dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Arty, mortars, smoke, infantry, get it to move, flank shot. A lucky shot by a Greyhound can kill a Hetzer frontally (weak spot) but that is not something I would bank on. ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikey D Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 I've seen 75mm bounce off the front at under 100 yards but I've been able to hole it in the side with a .50 cal at 300 yards. According to the literature on the real thing, that's actually accurate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Either get tanks the hetzer can't pierce. Or more realistically: smoke it, flank it, kill it. Flanking is what the Greyhounds are all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lassner.1 Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 One Hetzer should be no problem for a force that size - even in open terrain. In a ladder QB game several days ago I used three (pathetic) Chaffees to stalk a Tiger I. The Tiger got one Chaffee kill, and so too did a German halftrack. The last Chaffee got a 200m side shot into the Tiger and knocked it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacky Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Hetzer's on defense are a nightmare. If they have a hill to hide behind, they're worse. Hunt to the crest, pull back. Repeat ad nausaem. Since their ROF is low, it's not that big of a deal if they get only a single shot off while hull down on the crest. Where're the Stug's?! I rarely see Stug's by comparison. *think back* The _only_ time I have seen my opponent's with a Stug is when the scenario/QB assigns them. Getting lined up on their Flank is a sure method of beating them. The trouble is your opponent knows this. Sealing off the Hetzers' flanks with infantry/at weapons or the edge of the map reduces the opportunity. M5's and all Recon turn tail and run from Hetzer's if the Hetzer is lining up on them. So... since the M5 costs more and if the Hetzer is properly positioned, the M5 won't be getting a flank shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Or, or, or, use Fionn Kelly's "Short-75 Rule", which I would normally give you the URL to, but "hey, what happened to the Rugged Defense page? Anyone know? I went there and it's like, gone??? Anyway, the Short-75 keeps an opponent from surprising you with the Hetzer or a bunch of other stuff, unless you specifically agree to them. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bruno Weiss: but "hey, what happened to the Rugged Defense page? Anyone know? I went there and it's like, gone???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It moved here: http://www.Rugged-Defense.nl/cm/cm.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jd Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Smoke, send units right, some left, and move fast. The Hetzer may take out one, but should give you a flank or rear. A greyhould from side and defintely from rear will kill it. Fromthe front they are murder(yours) there have been a number of posts over the months about repeatedly bouncing shots off of them.... alternatively, get lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Thanks Jarmo! ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Ayers Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Got to agree with everyone else. I was just in a PBEM and my 1 M8 got 2 Hetzers. Granted, one was immobile at the time, but still. I was able to race around the other one before it had a chance to rotate (they're pretty darn slow) and got a great flanking shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackal Posted January 5, 2001 Author Share Posted January 5, 2001 All of you are correct in your thinking pertaining to smoke/manuever/return fire/flanking actions. The missing parts of the story: I split my forces into two with two shermans and one M8 each. The Hetzer showed itself by destroying a sherman quick into the battle; the M8 was ordered to speed forward and flank; the left remaining sherman was to continue to engage move fast to the left; the two shermans on the right was to move right, continue to engage, and split the targets. The sherman followed the two tanks on the right killing one immediately. then turned and killed the remaining sherman on the left. then turned and killed the M8 before it could get a solid flank shot. THEN, finally, my last remaining sherman managed to get a track hit and immobilize the hetzer only to be handed his lunch seconds later. My tactical thoughts were along the same line as everyone's but his hetzer crew was kicking my ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Ayers Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 Damn! Was that a crack Hetzer crew??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Offwhite Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 You can drop some heavy artillery on them too - in my current PBEM I immobilized a Hetzer with some 4.2" mortar fire (or he bogged and I just got lucky; I dunno ). I killed him later with an M8, but that was just gravy since he was immob'd while on a reverse slope with no LOS to my force. [edited to pre-empt grog attacks] [This message has been edited by Offwhite (edited 01-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banshee Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 How about using infantry? Hetzers are very poor against infantry. They have very few MG rounds , and their gun is too high of velocity to be a good infantry killer. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 Had an engagement with Andreas a while back, and lost 2 Shermans and 1 Armoured Car against his one Hetzer. To this day I don't know what killed it, either my 3" mortor FO's or my PAIT sneaking up behind it. It also might have just abandoned itself after it was surrounded by my infantry after killing all of his in a spectacular firefight. Whatever it was, it is now dead. Let us never speak of the Hetzer again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jd Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 The Hetzer IS Madmatt's fav so that should tell you somefink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Major Tom: Let us never speak of the Hetzer again.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And of that battle for that matter, you gamey Canuck, how dare you win against me?! It was abandoned IIRC, after it had run out of HE, AP and probably MG ammo. But it did what it was supposed to do and then some. (edited to insert a smiley for the sarcasm-impaired - not you Jeremy) ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. [This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 01-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: (edited to insert a smiley for the sarcasm-impaired - not you Jeremy) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Damn you!! You ruined my only chance of gaining the entire bulliten board to hate you and cause you to loose track of your troops in our current PBEM resulting in your untimely defeat!! You blew it up!!! You are a dastardly opponent indeed!! Damn you all to hell!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Major Tom: Damn you!! You ruined my only chance of gaining the entire bulliten board to hate you and cause you to loose track of your troops in our current PBEM resulting in your untimely defeat!! You blew it up!!! You are a dastardly opponent indeed!! Damn you all to hell!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hehe - now since we all know how to kill the mighty Hetzer, let's switch topics. Is editing a post to insert a smiley gamey? Opinions on a postcard please. ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: Hehe - now since we all know how to kill the mighty Hetzer, let's switch topics. Is editing a post to insert a smiley gamey? Opinions on a postcard please. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I would have thought that question is one for Peng... wouldn't you? Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 You know Hetzer means trouble-maker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: Originally posted by Major Tom: Damn you!! You ruined my only chance of gaining the entire bulliten board to hate you and cause you to loose track of your troops in our current PBEM resulting in your untimely defeat!! You blew it up!!! You are a dastardly opponent indeed!! Damn you all to hell!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hehe - now since we all know how to kill the mighty Hetzer, let's switch topics. Is editing a post to insert a smiley gamey? Opinions on a postcard please. "Wish you were her" I think that the preemptive use of an EXTRA smiley after you have written your message is about as gamey as using Crews mounted in Jeeps equipped with Bazookas travelling so far on the left side of the board that they appear on the right side to engage the enemy. Not only this, but, it is as morally aprehensive as killing small children with a dull battery. Anyone who does this should be immediatley and swiftly tortured for hours on end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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