Sexton

[Pud]

Over the last year or so I have developed a fetish for blowing buildings (up) containing Axis Inf. I generally buy at least one unit for this purpose. Until now relying on a 105Howitzer or Churchill VIII or 105 arty.

I noticed the other day the Sexton, being a 105mm, also has an absolute enormous loadout of ammo (around 100HE). Does anyone use this vehicle, it would appear to be a bit of an underrated unit, what are people's opinions on it?

[Mattias]

Pud

The gun mounted on the Sexton is a 25 pounder, closer to 88mm, hence the big ammo load.

M.

[Simon Fox]

It's gamey.

[M Hofbauer]

you migth catch some raised eyebrows when using it in a h2h game since historically the union-jack people were less inclined (to put it mildly) to use the sexton in a direct fire way compared to, say, the american use of their SP guns (the Priest) in a direct fire role every now and rare then .

[edited because of Ack!]

[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: M Hofbauer ]</p>

[Redwolf]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Pud:

Over the last year or so I have developed a fetish for blowing buildings (up) containing Axis Inf. I generally buy at least one unit for this purpose. Until now relying on a 105Howitzer or Churchill VIII or 105 arty.

I noticed the other day the Sexton, being a 105mm, also has an absolute enormous loadout of ammo (around 100HE). Does anyone use this vehicle, it would appear to be a bit of an underrated unit, what are people's opinions on it?<hr></blockquote>

As noted, it's less than a 105mm.

It is thinner than a Priest, has no MG and it needs a longer time to deliver the same overall blast value. It is usually dead before it can do so.

Overall, it is one of these vehicles that people buy to hide it "until the armour is gone", which is a questionable strategy.

That matches with reality, where the Sexton was an indirect-fire artillery piece, not an assault gun.

[109 Gustav]

Besides, it costs more than a priest.

[CombinedArms]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 109 Gustav:

Besides, it costs more than a priest.<hr></blockquote>

I wonder why, given the:

1. lighter gun

2. thinner armor

3. no MG

I've never actually bought one but have been handed them several times in scenarios. It seems almost impossible to keep them alive long enough to do any damage with them. They can be killed quite easily by 20mm rounds. And, if what I read above its true, the Brits knew this and were smart enough to keep them away from direct fire situations.

So, hey, scenario designers! No more Sextons, please....

[Cogust]

The Sexton actually has MORE armour than the Priest, it was a more accurate gun, a larger ammo load out and it comes with AP shells. It's blast is not much worse than the Priests (59 vs 77) and it comes with a slightly smaller silhouette.

The MG with 12 rounds on the Priest is not that effective IMO, and who said that the Sexton was more expensive? A regular Sexton costs 90 points while a regular Priest costs either 89 or 91 points, it seems like they cost the same to me.

[jshandorf]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redwolf:

As noted, it's less than a 105mm.

It is thinner than a Priest, has no MG and it needs a longer time to deliver the same overall blast value. It is usually dead before it can do so.

Overall, it is one of these vehicles that people buy to hide it "until the armour is gone", which is a questionable strategy.

<hr></blockquote>

As compared to the strategy where you roll them out before all the armor is gone, and they die a firey death?

Jeff

[Col Deadmarsh]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redwolf:

Overall, it is one of these vehicles that people buy to hide it "until the armour is gone", which is a questionable strategy.

<hr></blockquote>

You're right. Someone should really make a list of tanks which must be brought out early in the game to prevent this gamey behavior.

[Redwolf]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by jshandorf:

As compared to the strategy where you roll them out before all the armor is gone, and they die a firey death?

<hr></blockquote>

No, I meant do you select a force where almost everything is robust and almost everything can be used in a concentration for a serious blow should the opportunity arise?

Or do you select a force where parts of it are only applicable later in the game and might not contribute to an initial clash? Mind you that this is not the same thing as a reserve since a reserve needs the feedom to join different kinds of combat, and it should be robust to be able to move through terrain with a given level of danger potential. A sexton can only show up in throughly researched terrain and it can only join combat against helpless targets.

I don't say the second way can't work, especially depending on terrain, weather and luck it may pay off big time. But for me it is too limiting, at least when the units are costly (either cost in points or using up armour points), I prefer to be robust against unexcpeted results in terrain, weather or luck, and I like being able to take opportunities.

Mind you I would choose the Priest either. I just said if I had to choose between Priest and Sexton I'd take the Priest.

The whole issue of course partly depends on CMBO units and modeling. As the British, the Sexton isn't that much better than a close support Cromwell or Churchill. If I wouldn't have plenty 95mm in my arsenal I might be more tempted to take the Sexton. With the Americans the next smaller gun than the 105mm is the 75mm, and a Sherman 75mm costs the same as a Cromwell 95mm.

Also the rate of fire of the CMBO sexton doesn't feel right. Its large gun crew in an open vehicles doesn't really put out more of the smaller rounds than the one loader in a Sherman 105 handling the bigger cases in a cramped turret. Also the 25pdr was known as *the* artillery piece with high rate of fire in WW2. This ist mostly due to CMBO modeling no burst fire, no high rate of fire for short periods of time.

As it is, the Sexton is pretty unattractive, at least when going against opponents who aren't stupid enough to seek cover in houses

[Chad Harrison]

you can say the same thing for the german Wespe which comes in around 58 points and you get about 50 rounds of 105mm with a blast of 72. BUT, a very big BUT, someone could sneeze next to one and they would brew up! a .50cal can take them out from quite some ways.

for the sexton, they have a slower rate of fire and are vulnerable to everything, esp. tree bursts from on board mortars or artillery. however, if you can withstand the cries of gamey from some, and you position it in a way that its protected from incoming fire, they can be very usefull. i have never had one survive to use the 100+ rounds, ive only used about 20 before.

[Redwolf]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Chad Harrison:

you can say the same thing for the german Wespe which comes in around 58 points and you get about 50 rounds of 105mm with a blast of 72. BUT, a very big BUT, someone could sneeze next to one and they would brew up! a .50cal can take them out from quite some ways.<hr></blockquote>

I like Wespes. When I am British and have 2" mortars...

On the other hand, it is cosiderable cheaper than Sexton and Priest and can be useful for the few turns it can live in useful positions.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>

for the sexton, they have a slower rate of fire and are vulnerable to everything, esp. tree bursts from on board mortars or artillery. however, if you can withstand the cries of gamey from some, and you position it in a way that its protected from incoming fire, they can be very usefull. i have never had one survive to use the 100+ rounds, ive only used about 20 before.<hr></blockquote>

Why the hell is it gamey to operate some unit from cover? Some guys must have lost their minds...

[Chad Harrison]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redwolf:

Why the hell is it gamey to operate some unit from cover? Some guys must have lost their minds...<hr></blockquote>

i meant having sexton used as direct fire platforms. anyone who doesnt use hills/woods/ect to cover their flanks should be sent to the land of close combat and sudden strike.