offtaskagain Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 To kill a pillbox don't you need to either kill or scare off the crew, damage the gun or set off ammunition? So how does a dinky little 37mm shell knockout a pillbox? I've frequently seen an entire crew escape with no casualties. Shouldn't it just say gun damaged? Because if its knocked out you can't ever use it. If it would just say gun damaged instead of knocked out you maybe could throw in another MG team because the protective structure is still intact. Or perhaps they could explode or burn to represent ammo going off. [ 05-24-2001: Message edited by: panzerwerfer42 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cos Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panzerwerfer42: So how does a dinky little 37mm shell knockout a pillbox.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The 37mm is small enough to go through the slit in the pillbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 While complaining to my opponent about the ineffectiveness of the 37mm gun on the H-39, I was reminded by him that the M-79 grenade is a 37mm shell. Think of one of those coming through the firing slit and banging around in a closed room. You've also got to consider that the 2 or 3 MGs on that tin (the Stewart) can make life miserable for the pillbox crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted May 24, 2001 Author Share Posted May 24, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moriarty: While complaining to my opponent about the ineffectiveness of the 37mm gun on the H-39, I was reminded by him that the M-79 grenade is a 37mm shell. Think of one of those coming through the firing slit and banging around in a closed room. You've also got to consider that the 2 or 3 MGs on that tin (the Stewart) can make life miserable for the pillbox crew.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> But from 1000 meters it's impossible to put a shell through a firing slit with 2x sights. And HE shells do not bang around. They explode. But how can it kill a pillbox if the gun isn't damaged and none of the crew are hurt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 One small thing,the M-79 Grenade Launcher fires the same size round as the M-203,40mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick614 Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 It's not impossible at 1000 meters to put a shell through the firing slit, just unlikely. But the more times you fire the more likely it becomes. I just recently had a Stuart on a hill with a clear shot at a mg pillbox, range about 800meters. It fired for most of 3 turns but finally knocked out the pillbox. As to why there is no explosion or whatever I just accepted the fact that it was knocked out and went from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panzerwerfer42: But from 1000 meters it's impossible to put a shell through a firing slit with 2x sights. And HE shells do not bang around. They explode. But how can it kill a pillbox if the gun isn't damaged and none of the crew are hurt?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The force is strong with this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Splinty: One small thing,the M-79 Grenade Launcher fires the same size round as the M-203,40mm.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> My bad. Thanks for the correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panzerwerfer42: But how can it kill a pillbox if the gun isn't damaged and none of the crew are hurt?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Is this like a Zen koan? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Oh, by the way, when writing of the tank it's spelled 'Stuart'. Otherwise, somebody might think you mean something else. Like the actor Jimmie Stewart, for instance, who flew B-24s during the war. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiJoe Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 the 37mm is the best weaopon in CM to take out pillboxes. Fast ROF and deadly accurate. There were threads on this "issue" before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick614 Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Michael Good point. Jimmie was often seen standing off several hundred meters from pillboxes lobbing 37mm shell at them. (joke) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cos Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rick614: Michael Good point. Jimmie was often seen standing off several hundred meters from pillboxes lobbing 37mm shell at them. (joke)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Was he able to keep up a good ROF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Actually, Greyhounds are great anti-pillbox weapons. 37mm gyrostabilized cannons on a very fast platform. A platform fast enough that those pillboxes have trouble tracking them at full speed inside of 500m. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted May 25, 2001 Author Share Posted May 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys: Is this like a Zen koan? Michael<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What the hell is that? Anyways I meant how can there be a seperate distinction between knocked out and gun damaged? Doesn't knocked out just mean the gun is useless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 I had a Sherman kill a pillbox the otehr day - got a "slit penetration", no other damage, and het crew bailed out without any casualties. Perhaps they just figured their time was up and it's best to get out before it's made more blatant?? On a related note IIRC the Journal of Strategic Studies has an article in it in the 80's soem tiem which was a survey of damage done to tanks in Normandy by airpower. It concluded that the most dangerous thing for tanks was loss of morale, as many were abandoned in running order and with full tanks of gas! (IIRC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panzerwerfer42: But from 1000 meters it's impossible to put a shell through a firing slit with 2x sights. And HE shells do not bang around. They explode. But how can it kill a pillbox if the gun isn't damaged and none of the crew are hurt?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There was a huge discussion on this last year. The slit of a pillbox is about as high as a tank turret, but wider. If the crew bails out with no casualties I think it can be assumed the gun was damaged even if it doesn't say "gun damaged". [ 05-24-2001: Message edited by: Vanir Ausf B ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGriffon Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 If you were part of the crew of a pillbox, and a shell came flying through the slit and exploded next to you, regardless of whether or not you were hurt, can you say for sure that YOU would hang around? I call that the "screw this" factor in CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 I read over and over about the high ROF of vehicles sporting 37mm guns. I guess nobody looks at the ROF of the Stuart V. Treeburst155 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted May 25, 2001 Author Share Posted May 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GreenGriffon: If you were part of the crew of a pillbox, and a shell came flying through the slit and exploded next to you, regardless of whether or not you were hurt, can you say for sure that YOU would hang around? I call that the "screw this" factor in CM.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Shouldn't it be listed as abandoned then? Not destroyed. That way you could be able to reman it in operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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