If You Don't Have Anything Nice To Say .......

[Pvt.Tom]

There are always loads of posts on the forum bitching about some part of CM that made someone mad, so BTS fix this or I will never buy this unit again, ect. How about a post where we tell BTS what we like about CM, a feature or unit that you think works well. I'll start, I love the way BTS allowed infantry squads to attack tanks even if they only have grenades and rifles. Nothing better than seeing a KT taken out by GI Joe with nothing but a grenade and no common sense.

[Michael Dorosh]

Where do I start?

I'm too prolific here anyway, so I'll keep it short and stick to one point. I sent an email already, but I'll say it publicly too - thanks to BTS for including the Canadians. They may have gotten some tiny details wrong (we didn't wear British uniforms and sergeants didn't lead our "squads") but I am thoroughly impressed with the fact that they got our flag right, the web equipment is perfect to a T, they got the vehicles right, the order of battle of a battalion is terrific and dead accurate, and they didn't give us British accents! In all, I am very grateful we weren't once more lumped in with the Brits. I have no interest in the Poles or French, but think it was great that they were included too - they really went the extra mile to give a full representation of the forces that fought in Normandy.

To my knowledge, no other game has represented Canadians any differently from the Brits, or worse, didn't bother to include them at all.

[Juardis]

I have no doubt that BTS knows how much we like CM . But I guess it never hurts to praise. My list is long but in the interest of space I will only say this.

The TAC AI is pretty damned good. I'm constantly amazed at how well it responds. Is it perfect? NO. Will it ever be? No. But by gosh it's effective. Tanks and mortar teams firing smoke to protect your infantry under attack is but one example. Overmatched AFVs reversing to cover and popping smoke is another. The list goes on.

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Jeff Abbott

[Slapdragon]

Originally posted by Pvt.Tom:

There are always loads of posts on the forum bitching about some part of CM that made someone mad, so BTS fix this or I will never buy this unit again, ect. How about a post where we tell BTS what we like about CM, a feature or unit that you think works well. I'll start, I love the way BTS allowed infantry squads to attack tanks even if they only have grenades and rifles. Nothing better than seeing a KT taken out by GI Joe with nothing but a grenade and no common sense.

If you trot over to Usenet you will find a very funny conversation going on about how bad this list is because everyone defends BTS and the historical faction is a bunch of butts. (Of course I am the lead felon ***Slapdragon tips his hat***).

The main point is that BTS made a great product, and only useful and adult critique will make it better. We also joke, poke fun at each other, and generally learn lots of interesting things.

Unfortunately, attempts to raise the level of discourse have resulted in flames and attacks. BTS endures a post a week demanding change with no proof, and when the members of the board say give us some historical reason for the change, a firestorm of abuse lands in BTS lap.

So I applaud you for pointing out that BTS made a good game. BTS are not the demons that they are made out to be on the Usenet (of course the Usenet of my youth is gone, which is why many people call it the Uselessnet, were facts, fiction, and SPAM mingle freely).

[Chupacabra]

Hi Slapdragon -

I'm afraid this might come across as a flame. I hope you don't take it as such, but rather as constructive criticism. I would like to address some of your points however...

If you trot over to Usenet you will find a very funny conversation going on about how bad this list is because everyone defends BTS and the historical faction is a bunch of butts. (Of course I am the lead felon ***Slapdragon tips his hat***).

I feel that to some degree you relish in this position. It seems to me that you enjoy being considered "the lead felon," although I'm not entirely sure why.

I feel that every time someone mentions a possible problem in which CM might be inaccurately misrepresenting the capabilities of German armor in particular, but of the German military in general, you are quite eager to label them as "Deutschland immer gewinnt" apologists. This may be so, and I would certainly agree that wargamers as a generalized group tend to be pro-Axis (in equipment, not in politics), yet I feel that you've slung that particular term about a bit too readily.

I basically feel that you help to perpetuate or in some cases cause the flame wars which you castigate in your post.

Again, I hope this doesn't turn into a flame war of its own, but rather that you take this in the spirit it was intended.

Cheers,

Jon

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Soy super bien soy super super bien soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super

[Slapdragon]

Originally posted by Chupacabra:

Hi Slapdragon -

I'm afraid this might come across as a flame. I hope you don't take it as such, but rather as constructive criticism. I would like to address some of your points however...

I feel that to some degree you relish in this position. It seems to me that you enjoy being considered "the lead felon," although I'm not entirely sure why.

I feel that every time someone mentions a possible problem in which CM might be inaccurately misrepresenting the capabilities of German armor in particular, but of the German military in general, you are quite eager to label them as "Deutschland immer gewinnt" apologists. This may be so, and I would certainly agree that wargamers as a generalized group tend to be pro-Axis (in equipment, not in politics), yet I feel that you've slung that particular term about a bit too readily.

I basically feel that you help to perpetuate or in some cases cause the flame wars which you castigate in your post.

Again, I hope this doesn't turn into a flame war of its own, but rather that you take this in the spirit it was intended.

Cheers,

Jon

Of course not Chup, I do not feel it is a flame at all.

Here is my main point: The only people I ever "castigate" are people who come on and say that their Tiger was killed by a Sherman, change the game, and then offer no proof. Read the thread with Rexford in which I supported his position on German tanks, the thread on the 76 in which I wanted more proof of why the 76 should be made more powerful (especially since the tables everyone was quoting had seriour problems with them) and the tungsten thread in which all I wanted was proof one way or another.

Then, let me quote Steve on this issue:

Quote from Steve Grammont: (http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/015334-4.html) "Slapdragon you have a chip on your shoulder. You should not be annoyed with people that offer nothing constructive to otherwise constructive debates. Don't try and point out the sheer weakness and inconsistancies that such people use to discredit rational and well researched points of view. People have the right to be abusive and utterly useless on this BBS, so just leave them alone so we can have a lower quality discussion here."

If anyone posts a thoughtful discussion piece on German armor I say right on. But the "Deutschland immer gewinnt" is alive and well, and does not raise the level of discussion. Read WolfLords comments on why he thought the game should be changed:

Quote from Wolflord: (http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/015334-4.html) "I hate to keep pressing the matter but reaching historical accuracy in CM is an impossibility. Why not reach a happy medium and stop there, instead of making controversial point changes. Yes, I admit, I love German tanks. They possess an air of mystery and power. Now, the once mighty Panther or Tiger can be equated to a lowly, spiritless M4 Sherman."

And these people start the worst flame wars when anything is done or said the in the slighest might take away from a German tank, instead of just taking it as something to be proven or disproven and living with it. Just to put it into perspective, after the last discussion I got two death threats (one was actually directed at my family) and an e-mail sent to one of my deans asking that my job be looked at when all I ever said was come up with a supported argument for Steve and Charles to latch onto. No one, not one person, started a thread with that much hate and flames over the reduction in power of the 17 pdr, or the reduction of the power of the Jumbo changes that were accepted without a peep.

The point is that this should not go the way of Usenet. On Usenet, you can hear 25,000 theories on who killed Kennedy with no facts to sully some great ideas. I say -- if it is a thread to get the game changed, lets do it right. Lets get data together so Charles and Steve can actually change the game, not just yell at them and say, "Make my Tigers undefeatable." I do think, as Steve alluded, that discussions can be educated, with a good give and take of information. I would also like you to notice when I presented my views and asked that someone provide data to support their own, I was told to stick my head up my ass, to stop posting if I disagreed with them, and to stay out of a thread intended to protest the change to BTS (really Chup, reread the threads).

So, if I am a little smug over the role that I (and others who did not take this type of heat, like Polar) I paid for my smugness by receiving death threats over a historical discussion, something that have never happened to me in academia. I have never assigned someone to the "Deutschland immer gewinnt" group without good reason.

BTW Chup, I would never think you were flaming me.

[Col Deadmarsh]

A couple of comments on this great game..

1) Thank you for making a game in which tanks actually drive to where you tell them to go (unlike CC2)

2) Thank you for making a game in which smoke is actually useful (unlike cc2)

3) Thank you for making a game in which tanks are fitted with the actual weapons that were used in WWII. (unlike cc2-Daimler's with 6 lb guns)

4) And finally, thank you for making a game where the elevation of land can actually be seen and used to one's benefit (unlike cc2)

It may not be real time but it still kicks butt.

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Youth is wasted on the young.

[Michael Dorosh]

So Slapdraon, explain to me how I "trot over to Usenet"....I'd love to see some of the whining that people are doing about this forum and the predilection people here have for substance over form. I've been to a lot message boards, and this one has rapidly become my favourite - not just the subject matter, but the high level of discourse. This thread, and in particular the last two posts involving you and Chupacabra, are proof of that.

I remember inhabiting a Saving Private Ryan mb that no longer exists - and having Jon G., a respected author on WW II GI uniforms, come on and rant and rave and scream at people because they didn't know what kind of obstacles the Germans had on the D-Day beaches. The reason they were posting was that they didn't know this info and wanted to learn more. He told them if they didn't know it already to stop wasting everyone's time by asking. That mind set makes no sense to me - and this was a supposedly "learned" gentleman and scholar.

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<A HREF="http://wargames.freehosting.net/cmbits.htm

http://members.home.net/canuckmain/

http://highlanders.freehosting.net/" TARGET=_blank>http://wargames.freehosting.net/cmbits.htm

http://members.home.net/canuckmain/

http://highlanders.freehosting.net/</A>

[Slapdragon]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

So Slapdraon, explain to me how I "trot over to Usenet"....I'd love to see some of the whining that people are doing about this forum and the predilection people here have for substance over form. I've been to a lot message boards, and this one has rapidly become my favourite - not just the subject matter, but the high level of discourse. This thread, and in particular the last two posts involving you and Chupacabra, are proof of that.

I remember inhabiting a Saving Private Ryan mb that no longer exists - and having Jon G., a respected author on WW II GI uniforms, come on and rant and rave and scream at people because they didn't know what kind of obstacles the Germans had on the D-Day beaches. The reason they were posting was that they didn't know this info and wanted to learn more. He told them if they didn't know it already to stop wasting everyone's time by asking. That mind set makes no sense to me - and this was a supposedly "learned" gentleman and scholar.

Note the newsgroup address on this message (which is one of the more lame ones because it said this board was humorless. Find a Newsgroup reader and download the files for the last 10 days from omp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical

This is the message that 4 people from this board sent me today:

Subject: Re: Combat Mission Meeting Engagement debate

From: "WolfLord" <jlamb@southtech.net>

Date: 2001/01/24

Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical

Humm, seems to be this Slapdragon guy that is leading the tauting. I try to

steer clear of personal attacks but his arrogance on the board definately

isn't helping the situation. He just started up another mocking thread which

was immediately locked by BTS...good move. BTW, just found out that this guy

is a history professor at U of South Carolina where I am a Physics grad

student. Geez, and I thought persons from my good 'ol homestate were imbued

with Southern hospitality....

Oh well....

[Pvt.Tom]

Come on everyone, this threas is for warm fuzzy posts only. Now lets all have a big group hug.

[russellmz]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

dude, your sig is mucked up.

i got this as the url

<A HREF="http://wargames.freehosting.net/cmbits.htm

http://members.home.net/canuckmain/

http://highlanders.freehosting.net/" TARGET=_blank>http://wargames.freehosting.net/cmbits.htm

http://members.home.net/canuckmain/

http://highlanders.freehosting.net/</A>

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russellmz,

Self-Proclaimed Keeper for Life of the Sacred Unofficial FAQ.

"They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush

"They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show

[Guest Big Time Software]

Pvt.Tom, thanks for starting a "group hug" thread, but we are OK with how things go. We know that the vast majority really love CM. Even the ones that cause us repeated grief. This comes out in more ways than one can count, and we are truly grateful for it. Yes, we feel we work hard to receive such praise, but it is still humbling to see it all

I should weigh in here about the recent flare ups. I think that Chupacabra has a point. Egging on someone that you know is about to blow up is not a good idea. However, backing down from such a person isn't productive either. On balance, backing down is worse because it sets a lower standard. I would rather have more friction AND a higher level of discussion than less friction and a lower one.

I am very sure, in fact dead positive, that Slapdragon would GLADLY step down from his self appointed position if everybody could just keep the debate about this or that feature reasoned and respectful. Unfortunately, with any group there are always those that can't stay within these VERY simple guidelines. And I feel they should be, in fact NEED to be, called on it. Just gotta be carefull about HOW.

I would LOVE to see someone post a thread like "I want my Tigers to be stronger" and then have a very calm and reasoned discussion about why this is not what CM is about and we do not wish to make the changes without historical need clearly shown. And if the original poster really can't do this, then have him just say "OK, I see where you are coming from. No, I have absolutely no argument to support in favor of change. Thanks for listening". I for one would thank the person for his opinions and we would part on the best of terms. Unfortunately, this does not always happen.

Instead it too often turns into a fight and the person (or at least someone else taking up the torch) starts in on the "BTS doesn't like criticism and so and so is just a boot licker" blabbering personal attacks. All thought of actually discussion the issue, rationally, goes out the window.

And folks... this is NOT just a problem with pro-German tank guys. It happens about lots of things that aren't necessarily related to one side or another. Recently there was a heated thread about adding a feature to preview the map before purchasing units. It got nasty but wound up OK after a piece. Different feature, same problem.

The really laughable part is that the very people that are largely responsible for avoiding critical discussion (and actually attacking it like a Ludite would a microwave) are the same ones that complain the loudest that critical discussion is not possible here on this BBS. Kinda like someone lighting a fire in the basement of a house and then bitching about how they have no place to sleep. The fact that such people don't even see that they are doing this is a real head scratcher.

So... in the end, things move on. This BBS is a WEALTH of quality discussion in spite of the problems that crop up. Does ANYBODY doubt that Combat Mission is better now than when we released the Beta Demo? I seriously doubt anybody thinks this. And how did these improvements come about? Largely, although certainly not totally, because of the feedback and discussions held here on this BBS. And it is as true now as it was last year.

So I guess I just changed this into a BBS appreciation thread

Thanks!

Steve

P.S. I hope some of the folks over on USENET that have been listening to the "trouble makers" catch wind of at least the last bit of this thread. Some would think that there is no value to this BBS. We strongly disagree

[Jeff Heidman]

As one of the supposed "trouble-makers" I would be the first to say that there is value to this forum, and the first to say what a great game CM is.

The idea that Slapdragon is qualified to tell anyone about how to act in a reasoned manner is rather funny, to say the least. He starts and perpetuates most of the flame wars he gets involved in.

His current posturing as Mr. Voice of Reason is ridiculous.

To borrow Steves analogy, Slapdragon complaining about being flamed or personal attacks is like a guy with a flamethrower strapped to his back bitching about the house burning down around his ears.

Jeff Heidman

[WolfLord]

...sigh...If you read the message on USENET that I posted before the one that was posted here, you will note that I said "a shadow" has fallen over the CM BBS. This came as a direct result of insinuation that I was some sort of uber-Nazi because I like German tanks. Many others have also been treated in this manner. I merely find that this sort of intimidation isn't healthy for a thriving BBS. Please note, that I NEVER said this board was useless or w/o value.

I have also received many threatening emails due to the last discussion...too many to count. Also, about the only personal "attack" I have resorted to, was calling Slapdragon arrogant. Hell, that was most likely taken as a compliment. Anyway, I am done with this topic FOR GOOD on this board. BTS dosen't need these petty, flame inducing arguments keeping them from important matters. Until then, I guess Id better say my prayers since I have been judged a dastardly, vile, uber-Nazi (for making a suggestion w/o proof) on this board and will be hanged at dawn.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by russellmz:

dude, your sig is mucked up.

You're the only one that's bothered to click! LOL! Thanks - fixed. I hope!

Incidentally, speaking in general, personal attacks of any nature are self defeating and stupid and I would rather not see any such attacks, no matter whom they are directed at. If you don't like the way someone posts, my suggestion is to ignore them.

Slapdragon, I happen to agree with your outlook on things. Are you really a professor? What kind of history do you teach? I got one of my BAs in history, but couldn't specialize in military history, though I wanted to.

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http://wargames.freehosting.net/cmbits.htm

[Slapdragon]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

You're the only one that's bothered to click! LOL! Thanks - fixed. I hope!

Incidentally, speaking in general, personal attacks of any nature are self defeating and stupid and I would rather not see any such attacks, no matter whom they are directed at. If you don't like the way someone posts, my suggestion is to ignore them.

Slapdragon, I happen to agree with your outlook on things. Are you really a professor? What kind of history do you teach? I got one of my BAs in history, but couldn't specialize in military history, though I wanted to.

****Stepping through the flames, flame retardant suit singed but not damaged****

Michael. My area is Mass Communications, but my concentration is history, and I am an oral historian. I have done dozens of histories of vets althoigh technically out of my area, and have worked with Spanish American War, Korea, World War Two, and Vietnam.

You could get military history. Once you start in on your masters / doctorate you choose a school to go to based on who you want to work with. I came to USC to work with Augie Grant and Paul Huray on technology (I develop video over IP systems as a consultant) and with Marcia Synnott. You can specialize in military history just by choosing someone who is doing what you want to do.

Right now I am not teaching history but a 250 person lecture course on mass media in society. I have however taught the history of technology in America, and sneakily tied it to advances made in the Civil War and Second World War.

[Guest Big Time Software]

Jeff wrote:

He starts and perpetuates most of the flame wars he gets involved in.

Well, if you include challenging someone to come up with some "evidence" starting a flame war, then I just assume shut down this BBS and figure out how to improve CM on my own. Of course there are better and worse ways to challenge people to rise to the intellectual challenge. I think we would all just be better off if we just remember this and try to keep things cool.

His current posturing as Mr. Voice of Reason is ridiculous.

Someone has to do it, and I for one don't see why it should always be me If more people tried to redirect those people who spend most of their energy aimlessly complaining and get them to aim towards constructive discussion more this BBS would certainly be better off.

WolfLord wrote:

...sigh...If you read the message on USENET that I posted before the one that was posted here, you will note that I said "a shadow" has fallen over the CM BBS. This came as a direct result of insinuation that I was some sort of uber-Nazi because I like German tanks.

I think this is not a very fair statement of what happened. At least my my standpoint. You love the Panther, you think the Sherman is a "soulless" piece of metal. That is fine, but it was clear that this was making your judgement a bit clouded. That is also OK, but it needs to be recognized.

Many others have also been treated in this manner. I merely find that this sort of intimidation isn't healthy for a thriving BBS.

This is correct. However, it also isn't healthy to have lopsided user feedback when we make changes. As stated, nobody raised any concerns about reducing Tungsten effectiveness and Jumbo armor, but swap around some points and all Hell broke loose. We want feedback on the GAME in relation to the GAME as a whole. Having a rather significant minority jumping on any cause that is "pro-German" without thinking about it in the Big Picture is not healthy. Fighting against challenges for "evidence" to support such positions makes things unhealthy.

I have also received many threatening emails due to the last discussion...too many to count.

This is a real shame. It shouldn't happen to anybody. I hold no ill will towards you at all, and I am one of the people most affected by how discussions go around here. You asked that there be no hard feelings, and I can assure you that there are none. However, I do hope you can take a step back and look at the rest of the story from the perspective on this issue.

BTS dosen't need these petty, flame inducing arguments keeping them from important matters. Until then, I guess Id better say my prayers since I have been judged a dastardly, vile, uber-Nazi (for making a suggestion w/o proof) on this board and will be hanged at dawn.

I don't think this is the case. Just accept that there will be resistance to such a case and that if you do not wish to "back it up" that you might want to withdraw from the discussion. And folks... this goes for ANYBODY that posts about ANYTHING on this BBS. I don't give a flying fig if it is about a German tank or an American one, the User Interface or a graphic. Mindless complaining (not saying this was you WolfLord) just isn't worth the time to engage in a full discussion.

Thanks,

Steve

[This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 01-25-2001).]

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Slapdragon:

Right now I am not teaching history but a 250 person lecture course on mass media in society. I have however taught the history of technology in America, and sneakily tied it to advances made in the Civil War and Second World War.

Write what you know. Guess it's the same for teaching - just about every paper I did in University was somehow tied to Second World War history. It served me well! My other BA is in Communications Studies so I have taken some courses on media also. I didn't much like the 250 person lectures; can't imagine having to try and teach one.

[Slapdragon]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Write what you know. Guess it's the same for teaching - just about every paper I did in University was somehow tied to Second World War history. It served me well! My other BA is in Communications Studies so I have taken some courses on media also. I didn't much like the 250 person lectures; can't imagine having to try and teach one.

It blows. I won teacher of the year last year for the University of South Carolina, and have won 3 research fellowships and fellows of the University, so now it comes back to haunt me in the form of the tough to teach classes.

Communications studies is a good spring board into history research if you can train your mind to be sceptical, to demand data before your mind is made up instead of after, and to be willing to wade through a ton of junk for each nugget of gold. My research on black soldiers in WW2 has be going through around 75 pounds of GPO documents that basically tell were each man shat each day, then suddenly you find the name of the guy who missed out on the CMH only because he was black in the middle of all that, and it is all worth while.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Slapdragon:

Communications studies is a good spring board into history research if you can train your mind to be sceptical, to demand data before your mind is made up instead of after.

Sounds like what goes on on this forum, doesn't it? Gets you labelled as arrogant in some corners, doesn't it.

Been published yet? I do my research on the side; my second book (on uniforms YAWWWNNN) is going into print in the next couple of months. There's no money in it (not like being a rich professor) but it has it's rewards as well.

Black troops have always been an interesting topic for me - I read HIT HARD (?) by a white officer in the 746 Tank Battalion, but haven't seen much else. Be nice to have a black troops mod for CM, come to think of it. For all the difference it would make!

The movie about the Tuskegee airmen on HBO was good, if formulaic - I hated that they flew the same model P-51 for the entire movie, and then in one scene, they come upon - gasp - a P-51 (which we've seen in about a hundred scenes already) and the crew chief goes on and on about how great these "new" planes are. I imagine the script called for P-38s or whatever they actually flew before switching to Mustangs.

Am I rambling much? There is a general purpose mb I go to for fans of SPR, but anything goes there - if you (or anyone else reading this) is ever inclined, you can post at

http://network54.com/Hide/Forum/60599

for general military topics not really germaine to discussion here. We actually have a WW II US Artillery vet there who is a regular, plus...(gasp) girls and stuff....

[Guest Big Time Software]

Self quoting myself here:

If more people tried to redirect those people who spend most of their energy aimlessly complaining and get them to aim towards constructive discussion more this BBS would certainly be better off.

You know, I wrote this and then reread it. I thought it sounded familiar. And then it struck me. Someone I know said this about the townspeople in my neck of the woods (and probably anywhere, actually).

Basically, most of the people do little to move things forward constructively (this is NOT true of this BBS though!) and a significant minority does nothing but complain, belittle, and in general shout down critical discussion. A few brave souls sometimes suffer through this and manage to get things imrpoved for the better of all, including the bitter minority (over their loud protests sometimes even!). Othertimes nothing happens and the process is shut down. The point is that if the energy of the loud and unproductive minority could just be directed to doing GOOD instead of hindering it, "imagine where the world we would live in now!". How true...

Now I don't think this BBS has deep problems, but a LOT of energy, from generally pretty bright people, is WASTED on doing absolutely nothing that makes anybody better, not to mention CM. So just a thought... if you find yourself tempted to jump into a flame-a-thon try and think about how much time and energy you waste if you do. Then think about how much more better things would be if you put the same energy and time towards something more constructive.

Tough to live by this all the time, but ideals rarely are practiced perfectly. People should get points for at least trying to

Steve

[This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 01-25-2001).]

[Forever Babra]

I've bitched, a couple of times loudly, about this or that. But I've always maintained, and I still do, that CMBO is the best WW2 tac sim there ever was. Bar none. Sure people have complaints. They always will. It will NEVER be perfect. But it does rock

Sign me up for CM2. You can debit my account today.

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When it's my turn to march up to Glory,

I'm gonna have one HELL of a story...

The Face of Evil

[Slapdragon]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Sounds like what goes on on this forum, doesn't it? Gets you labelled as arrogant in some corners, doesn't it.

Been published yet? I do my research on the side; my second book (on uniforms YAWWWNNN) is going into print in the next couple of months. There's no money in it (not like being a rich professor) but it has it's rewards as well.

Yes I have been published, three articles and a chapter of a text book, plus a half dozen presentations. A lot of what I do is provide data for other researchers at the moment, I am still a bit youngish to get the real contracts, and until I get out of consulting.

I am doing research on a big article on black soldiers, started out as an article for Wild Bill but someone liked it. I am also doing research on the Brazillian Army in WW2 -- they fought in Italy.

Some of what is frustrating is that undergraduates are expected to learn basic techniques of argument, evidence, and logical positivism, so when it is absent you scream :darn, didn't they go to school." But you really have to figure even if the majority are not vocal, they are stupid either, and do think this stuff through. This list is an arm and a leg above the basic Usenet.

Introduce me to your general list and I will monitor it. I have an application that checks for changed pages so it is fairly easy, and it sounds like a nice place.

[Guest MantaRay]

BTS needs to make no apologies, nor will ever lose sleep over what a few cranky people think.

Sadly, these people who sit here and pick the game apart, w/o even comprehending how astonishing it is for ANY company of any type to make such a giant leap forward in products currently on the market.

The worst part is that we as a consumer do not demand this type of quality of all games or products. Hell, we don't even expect a good product, or for that matter, think a game is going to be good.

All the big companies should strive to do half of what a dream and a prayer company like BTS has done. I remember when I too thought they were going to be just another Talonsoft.

I would have been happy with just the original CD version that shipped, and I could care less what any of these armchair programmers and historians have to say. Find me a better game about WWII, and then I will listen.

Ray

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When asked, "How many moves do you see ahead?", CAPABLANCA replied: "One move - the best one."

Click now for shelter from the Peng thread

The Red Army of the Rugged Defense Group Ladder

[Michael Dorosh]

Slapdragon - done.