killa in manilla Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 i was reading a FAQ post and i have no idea as to what it is, could someone explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 WP is a chemical that ignites in contact with air, making a great amount of smoke and some serious fires Was used as Smoke and also as antipersonnel round. [ 08-27-2001: Message edited by: argie ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killa in manilla Posted August 28, 2001 Author Share Posted August 28, 2001 thanks argie, i had an idea that was what it was but i was wondering why thry just wouldn't call it smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 it was used extensively in the PTO to rout out japanease defenders. the would fire WP rounds into their caves and they would come running out. it burns terribly bad, and the shrapnel was not a welcome friend to those on the other end of it . . . as was said it was a very common smoke agent for the allies, especially the americans. the next question will proboably be why the mortars, 75mm guns and sorts dont have any. same reason we dont have the quad .50cal HMG M16 AAA vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by killa in manilla: thanks argie, i had an idea that was what it was but i was wondering why thry just wouldn't call it smoke<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Because smoke is different? WP is serious bad news, burns skin/flesh/muscle other things too like crazy. It can/was used to mark targets, create a "smoke" patch, but more importantly really is the offensive nature of the chemical round. Caused panic, among the enemy when it was used. Because wither it burned the crap out of you, or it was marking an area for something big to go BOOM!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbaro Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 Read a first person account of bazooka white phosphorus rounds being used in urban battle in Saarlouis-Roden by Lt. Lee M. Ottis and a couple of GIs. Their unit Co. G of the 328th in the 26 Division was in a standoff situation for several days with German troopers occupying positions across streets as well as within the same block in buildings in view. They had access to a cache of munitions that included quite a variety of material including various bazooka rounds,hand granades, rifle granades, bangalore torpedoes, one pound and 40 pound cone shaped charges(beehives)compositon c, booby traps, and ammo. They acquired this in variety and quantity. Additionally they had 3 bazookas and 2 flamethrowers. And at times they got bored and had means of relief in hand. After several well placed bazooka rounds the building they were firing at began to crumble and fall. They they used WP to fire for effect. They also fooled around with placing rounds over the buildings in indirect fire. They were basically at best just harrasing their adversaries. Besides it was fun. This was from G Company's War by Bruce E. Egger and Lee MacMillian Ottis from journals independently kept by two soldiers, who fought in the same company, edited by Paul Roley, The University of Alabama Press. I believe I have also read of WP bazooka rounds being used to ignite wooden buildings to rid them of their occupants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 I've also seen films of WP bombs being dropped on the flightlines of Japanese air bases. It ignites avgas real nice. WP was not the preferred smoke round I am told. There was a chemical smoke round that produced denser, more persistent smoke. But of course, that wasn't much use at burning the enemy. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hon John Howard MP LLB Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys: I've also seen films of WP bombs being dropped on the flightlines of Japanese air bases. It ignites avgas real nice. WP was not the preferred smoke round I am told. There was a chemical smoke round that produced denser, more persistent smoke. But of course, that wasn't much use at burning the enemy. Michael<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> WP has some very bad charateristics from the point of view of the user: It is a much harder substance to handle because of the necessary safety precautions. Exposing the filler to the air is as bad for you as it is to the enemy. All ammunition establishments (and in peacetime firing mounds) have a means to exclude air (from the humble 44 (IMP) gallon drum of water to large dams of water). It has a tendancy to pillar. When used for concealment it heats the surrounding air and so causes an updraft and a pillar of smoke (much worse than Chenm smoke which tends to just hang there as it is heavier than air). Like all smoke it should be used in a light wind ideally across the path to be obscured. It is as dangerous to your own troops as it is to the enemy. You cannot enter it (to pass through it) so while it may obscure it also limits your own movement. Petrol powered vehicles or vehicles with combustable loads may be in danger. Crew of full NBC protected vehicles may survive but then will the vehicle burn.... It is expensive, much more expensive than chemical smoke both because of the cost of the material but also because of the special handling precautions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 In the official U.S. Army history book on Okinawa, there is an account from a tank unit on just how effective WP was on caves. It described a Sherman putting a WP round in a cave entrance, then watching smoke rise from twenty or more widely seperated points on the hill. Sure would make finding tunnels a lot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hon John Howard MP LLB Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panzerwerfer42: In the official U.S. Army history book on Okinawa, there is an account from a tank unit on just how effective WP was on caves. It described a Sherman putting a WP round in a cave entrance, then watching smoke rise from twenty or more widely seperated points on the hill. Sure would make finding tunnels a lot easier.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I also saw a training film made in 1945 where US forces demonstrated how various weapons worked with cave systems. Targets were goats tethered in the caves in a rock formation somewhere in the continental US. Used were various artillery calibres to 8in firing direct with HE Fused super quick and delayed (allow it to penertrate the caves in theory - in practice the rounds litterally bounced everywhere). Tank fire up to 90mm, RR using HESH etc. The goats generally survived it all except those caught by accident and those in the higher reaches after WP were fired into the lower caves (pillar effect) but many in the lower caves and chambers below the entraces survived because they were below the burst. Then they brought on the aircraft. A Bomb Group of Mediums (B25) with 500lb, 1000lb HE and SAP did not do much except to disturb the dust. A Fighter Sqn (P/F51)with 500lb HE skip bombing (scared the hell out of the pilots - the bombs bounced and follwed them to explode (seemingly) just behind the tails ! No real effect on the animals. Next they did the same with napalm tanks - lots of smoke and fire but not a lot of effects. Next they did it with all but 'tail-end charlie' dropping unfused napalm tanks (build up the fuel load on the rock). 'Tail end charlie' dropped his tanks with fuses and the hill literally exploded. All goats were killed even in the deep cavans, becuase they had been deprived of oxygen in the conflagration.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hon John Howard MP LLB: I also saw a training film made in 1945 where US forces demonstrated how various weapons worked with cave systems. Targets were goats tethered in the caves in a rock formation somewhere in the continental US. Used were various artillery calibres to 8in firing direct with HE Fused super quick and delayed (allow it to penertrate the caves in theory - in practice the rounds litterally bounced everywhere). Tank fire up to 90mm, RR using HESH etc. The goats generally survived it all except those caught by accident and those in the higher reaches after WP were fired into the lower caves (pillar effect) but many in the lower caves and chambers below the entraces survived because they were below the burst. Then they brought on the aircraft. A Bomb Group of Mediums (B25) with 500lb, 1000lb HE and SAP did not do much except to disturb the dust. A Fighter Sqn (P/F51)with 500lb HE skip bombing (scared the hell out of the pilots - the bombs bounced and follwed them to explode (seemingly) just behind the tails ! No real effect on the animals. Next they did the same with napalm tanks - lots of smoke and fire but not a lot of effects. Next they did it with all but 'tail-end charlie' dropping unfused napalm tanks (build up the fuel load on the rock). 'Tail end charlie' dropped his tanks with fuses and the hill literally exploded. All goats were killed even in the deep cavans, becuase they had been deprived of oxygen in the conflagration....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Napalm and WP were not really perfected in WW2, but by Korea they were a very important weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoatnGator Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 Good ole Willie P.... Anybody know the modern day willie P shoulder fired rocket for the US. It was box shaped with four rounds. I remember test firing it and thinking the infantry on the end wold sure be in a world of hurt. By the way, firing the Dragons was cool too with the InfraRed Scopes. I never new Willie P was used for smoke, talk about a mixed use weapon. Is modern day smoke the same? I don't think so bt replies are welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 In a cave it would deplete all the oxygen. In vietnam, regular grenades would wipe out the O2 and someone trapped in the tunnels would choke. Ive read of german troops, under WP attacks, going on coughing jags till they passed out cold for hours. Sometimes waking up behind the lines cause the GIs thought they were dead. Sherman 75mm, 81mm mortar, 4.2 inch mortar, 105mm. Ive read of all these weapons using it. Ive read of infantry using it also as a hand grenade too. Mentions of rifle grenades being common also. Supposedly the japanese fired it as AA. Theres film footage that shows it was done. The US sherman 75mm certainly used it. It was used as a weapon and preferred to HE sometimes. Its a dangerous round to carry because if it is ruptured, theres maybe a split second before the inside of the tank gets deadly. Another reason for wet stowage! Ive read of german tankers hating it because it could get down into the engine area and start fires. If fuel was sloshed it would ignite it and it would also burn hoses, wiring, etc. the smoke was noxious and woudl get sucked into the tank. It was passed over. In retrospect, the german tanks have a hard enough time staying alive without this threat. Lewis [ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: Username ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Username: Supposedly the japanese fired it as AA. Theres film footage that shows it was done. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> They also made time fuzed WP bombs that their fighters would try to drop in the middle of bomber formations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 I've read accounts of WP being used by the end of June 1944 in hedgerow country. The Americans would assault a hedgerow by using suppresion fire, dropping a mortar barrage along the obstacle, and having a tank fire a couple of rounds of WP at the ends of the bocage (where Germans typically liked to place MG nests). Infantry would then advance to take the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrold Posted September 1, 2001 Share Posted September 1, 2001 I am currently reading 'Citizen Soldier' in which the tactic of using WP and the effect on the defender is vividly described. It doesn't sound like it would be very pleasant to be on the receiving end. BDH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hon John Howard MP LLB Posted September 1, 2001 Share Posted September 1, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by barrold713: I am currently reading 'Citizen Soldier' in which the tactic of using WP and the effect on the defender is vividly described. It doesn't sound like it would be very pleasant to be on the receiving end. BDH<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And it is a sdangerous to your own side as to the opposition - rather like NBC agents when something goes wrong..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted September 1, 2001 Share Posted September 1, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hon John Howard MP LLB: And it is a sdangerous to your own side as to the opposition - rather like NBC agents when something goes wrong.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have read somewhere (I'm afraid that was in an old Reader's Digest ), an account from a bomber crew who got a very little WP signal grenade open in the cabine for some fabrication flaw... Was very terrifying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhammer Posted September 1, 2001 Share Posted September 1, 2001 Christmas Present at Hemroulle http://thedropzone.org/europe/Bulge/463dpfa.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted September 1, 2001 Share Posted September 1, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wilhammer: Christmas Present at Hemroulle http://thedropzone.org/europe/Bulge/463dpfa.html<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks for posting that link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhammer Posted September 1, 2001 Share Posted September 1, 2001 A Sherman tank crew oral history. http://www.tankbooks.com/giffdarp.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhammer Posted September 1, 2001 Share Posted September 1, 2001 http://www.milmag.com/features/bulge01.html Near the bottom the guy talks about taking out a Panzer with a WP hand grenade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhammer Posted September 1, 2001 Share Posted September 1, 2001 http://www.3ad.org/testimonials/wwii/pacios/wwii_36air_pacios.htm Here a guy talks about an action near Aachen that sounds like a fine scenario. He mentions WP beingused for a smoke screen tactically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhammer Posted September 1, 2001 Share Posted September 1, 2001 Redstone Arsenal in WW2 http://www.redstone.army.mil/history/studies/welcome.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted September 2, 2001 Share Posted September 2, 2001 I forget BTS' stand on this. They said that infantry WP grenades werent common and the tank/arty use was not different enough than regular smoke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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