Motorcycles, and bikes in CM2

[Battlefront.com]

Tero,

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>

I have read more than a few English language WWII histories (both American and British along with others) and from experience I know the Anglo-American histories very, VERY rarely mention these particular battlefield "assets" in their narratives.<hr></blockquote>

Well, might it be because they weren't a significant part of the combat? Like others have mentioned here, I have plenty of mention of horses and motorcycles in Anglo-American authored books. In fact, one of them showed a picture of senior 12th SS officers (including Meyer) riding on a motorcycle. The blurb around it was how something like how Anglo-American senior level officers would never have stooped so low as to ride around on a bike like that.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>

I hope you are not going to wind down this thread and lock it up because of biased remarks like that. Given the present international situation. Or does that apply only to the General Forum ?<hr></blockquote>

I was being very sarcastic in the face of something you wrote, which was not sarcastic.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Can you corraborate or trash my assesment on the Anglo-American WWII histories and their handling of said "battlefield" assets in the text ?<hr></blockquote>

You said, very clearly IMHO, that we weren't going to put these things in because we didn't see anything in the Anglo-American materials. This implies that a) we only use Anglo-American materials, that they do in fact have a problem reporting anything other than tank operations, and c) that we based our decision to exclude them due to ignorance instead of a well informed decision. I of course take issue with all of this

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>What prevents you from widening the scope ? <hr></blockquote>

Coding time. You have no idea how much coding it would take to get horse in. The models alone would take days, not to mention the many days to code the TacAI to behave correctly. In a perfect world they would be in, but the world is not pefect so we must make design decisions. Keeping the scope narrower than you suggest makes this easier to do and more consistant.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Can you give any concrete examples of the trials and how they failed to deliver ?<hr></blockquote>

The number one problem is that a Squad was mounted on three sidecar motorcycles. There is currently no support in CM for 3 parts of a whole unit. The number two problem is that the motorcycles were abandoned when the unit went into combat. There is currently no support for unmounting and remounting, so once dismounted it would have to be for the rest of the game. That is a TOTALLY unacceptable problem. Another problem is that the motorcycle sidecar's LMG would have to be removed for use with the squad. There currently is no way to pass a weapon from one unit to another.

There are other problems, but any one of the above kills motorcycle use in CM. We could allow players to have single seater motorcycles for recon or sidecar mounted LMG motorcycles as some sort of mobile firebase. However, both would be totally gamey for inclusion. All of the beta testers agreed that if we couldn't model the real use of motorcycle troops that we shouldn't include motorcycles at all.

Sorry, reality can be a bummer sometimes. But it doesn't mean no thought went into the decision.

Steve

[ASL Veteran]

Although I am a stout supporter of the horses, bicycles, and motorcycles camp - I have to agree that if they can't be coded properly or efficiently it is probably better to leave them out altogether. I rather wish night combat was left out of CMBO for that same reason (no starshells etc etc).

I wonder if Steve's rather sudden reappearance on the message board is any kind of an indicator of the imminent release of CMBB? What other explanation can there be for all this free time he has now?

[Battlefront.com]

ASLVet:

If there was a compelling reason to have them included, we would delay the game for a month and make sure that they were added and worked correctly. But the case for their inclusion is weak, and therefore such an effort and delay is unwise.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>I rather wish night combat was left out of CMBO for that same reason (no starshells etc etc).<hr></blockquote>

Well, since plenty of night time combat took place without starshells, there is merrit to having it included. And since night combat was a fairly standard part of daily combat, leaving it out altogether would have been quite wrong in my opinion.

Compare this with horses, bicycles, and motorcycles that weren't supposed to be used in actual combat. And when they did, they had little apreciable value to the combat potential of that side. They generally just ran away or died trying. Not much value in weeks worth of coding just to see a horse graphic run away or fall over dead

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>I wonder if Steve's rather sudden reappearance on the message board is any kind of an indicator of the imminent release of CMBB? What other explanation can there be for all this free time he has now? <hr></blockquote>

Nope. I was pointed to a particular thread and got carried away to three instead of the one. I'll be going back in my hole again now

Steve

[Capitalistdoginchina]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Big Time Software:

The LMG was on top of the sidecar because there is no other place to store it

Steve<hr></blockquote>

Actually there was a purpose designed mount on the sidecar (Between the bike and sidecar) where the LMG was mounted/stowed. The LMG was then mounted atop the sidecar (For firing) whenever it was envisaged it might come in handy IE enemy contact possible.

CDIC (Feeling and sounding like a grog for the first and last time )

[Andrew H.]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ASL Veteran:

I wonder if Steve's rather sudden reappearance on the message board is any kind of an indicator of the imminent release of CMBB? What other explanation can there be for all this free time he has now? <hr></blockquote>

Ever been to Maine in November? Brrrr.