Henri Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Anyone interested in an AAR of a 1250-pt TCPIP night battle in heavily forested village map with high hills where my Panther single-handedly turned the tide of battle and turned defeat into victory can read the AAR on the Usenet war-historical forum. This AAR also illustrates how inept Volksgrenadier veterans (probably veterans from WW1) can be.Yes, they were on my side... Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Sure. Id like to see it! I assume you mean an "After Action Report". Are you going to send the save file? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellros Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 FOrgive my computer and Internet illiterateness, but could you provide a link ot that Usenet site? thankee much. -Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 C'mon Henri, fork over the goods! I'm dyin here!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 This AAR also illustrates how inept Volksgrenadier veterans (probably veterans from WW1) can be.Yes, they were on my side... Always interested in your AAR's Henry, yes! I am wondering though about the comment above. How would veteran VG's be "inept" compared to any other veteran unit? Lack of firepower? If I recall right, CM does not give specific troops any better or worse fighting capabilities based on "who they are". Just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banshee Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 for those of you without Usenet access (your ISP probably provides, they might call it NNTP) , Deja.com is a good place for reading the usenet via the web. /group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical]http://www.deja.com/[sT_rn=fs]/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical the above link should bring you to the right newsgroup ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Just to let you know your AAR is always a great read. BTW, I love verteran Stormtrupens more, best for all jobs. Griffin. ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 ok ok First off thanks to Henri for not identifying me as the LOSER! It was a good battle as Henri described we chose to let the computer pick forces and we played no holds barred agreeing that neither player would label the other player "gamey". We were both happy and agreed to all the settings before hand. I hosted and set up the map. I got 2 m4A1 75 mm Sherms I think they were regular and one HT with the .50 cal MG and 3 T20 Recon cars, and the obilgatory company of infantry, it was combined arms. I advanced carefully and and took one Sherm up EACH flank and advanced the HT and 2 T20's into the town in the center of the map. I was successfull early on. My right flank was well protected and the advance went well over there, ?I secured a good position in woods on a hill to advance on one of the flags on the right side. But the left flank was another story, I met the panther on the left flank, it was well supported with infantry and in the fire fight his panther Nialed my first sherm and them collapsed my whole left flank. Unfortunately my two SHerms were WAY too far apart (Map had BIG hills all over) to be able to tag team the Panther and get in a good flank shot. I pushed EVERYTHING I had includeing 105 arty, mortars, 'zooks and twice attempted to attack with infantry in close assualts on that Damn Panther. NOTHING else mattered but I could not take it down, and every where it went it rained havoc and destruction. It met my first sherman head on as I was trying to back away from the engagement and Ko'd it. Much later in the game it hunted down the last Sherm and with the first shot it ko'd the gun and with the second shot it KO'd the tank. Nothing on the map could scratch the Panther. If I had been luckier MAYBE the 105's would have immoblized it, but no. It was a good game and it was fun, but I felt fairly powerless against The Panther from Hell. Is that how you saw it Henri? -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by Henri: Anyone interested in an AAR No, but I'd like the next turn to our game, please. =) Kitty ------------------ Hamsters at War! Chicks With Tanks Lorak's FTX "I'd rather the Bees than your Mask of Shame." - Stuka The True Blue Aussie Slang Source The Unofficial Vic Bitter Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by Guy w/gun: Sure. Id like to see it! I assume you mean an "After Action Report". Are you going to send the save file? Due to the overwhelming number of reequests (three, actually...), here it is... This was a 1250-point TCPIP Quick Battle meeting engagement on heavily forested village terrain with high hills at night, so line of sight was generally short. The computer chose the units automatically, and I got a Panther, a Puma and a Skdfz241/1 halftrack, a 120 mm artillery observer, and two veteran Volksgrenadier companies. From what I saw, veteran Volksgrenadiers probably means that they fought in World War 1! Their officers were the worst bunch of nondescript nincoms I have ever seen in combat mission, with combat radiuses of about 2 meters and no special abilities to speak of except running fast towards the rear or groveling in bushes. The village was in the middle in a valley in the middle of which rose a steep hill with a number of 2-storey buildings on the top containing the main flag. Another flag was at the far end of that hill near the bottom, and the third was off to my left in woods. I set my infantry mostly in the center and on the right, with one platoon on the left to reconnoiter the flag on that side, keeping one platoon in reserve in the center.I put the Puma on a road on the left from where it could rapidly move to the center, and the Panther on a road near the center. I moved my infantry on "fast" toward the objectives, intending to occupy buildings near the flags in teh center, cover or occupy the flag on the left, and hopefully flank the enemy with the two platoons moving fast on the right, whom I intended to wheel left once they got halfway across the map. I indeed occupied the buildings in the center not far from the flags, but my opponent jumped into the buildings on top of the hill and took the main flag there as well as the one on the other side of the hill.A firefight broke out, and it turned out that he eventually had 2 platoons there suported by HMGs, and I began to take a beating. I brought up another platoon to the right of the town, but they had difficulty on getting good lines of sight to the buildings on the high hill. So I brought down my Puma and my Panther behind my infantry for support, but was wary of AT weapons that were probably in the buildings or nearby. In the meantime, I captured the flag on the left without opposition and slowly advanced that platoon toward the center. On the right, just before I wheeled left, I met the enemy advance guard and a firefight broke out. The second platoon there was slightly behind the first one (to avoid both being caught by the same artillery barrage), and I brought them up too. Before they could get into position, my veteran Volksgrenadiers began to break and run -one ran away after taking only 2 casualties! Then a Sherman tank appeared in their midst and began to pound my infantry. I realized that at this rate, my right flank would be soon torn to shreds, and I quickly but carefully began to bring up my Panther form the center, making sure that he stayed behind my infantry. As he approached the battle, a bazooka unit was spotted running towards him, but it was soon routed by fire from infantry and the tank. At this point, I had one platoon near the flag on the left, two in buildings exchanging fire in the center, one in reserve behind them, one on the outskirts of the village on the right, and two exchanging fire with the enemy on the right. I was taking heavy casualties and my Panther was having difficulty getting a line of sight on the Sherman due to the very hilly terrain, heavy cover and short LOS. As it was getting close enough to get a LOS to the Sherman, it backed up behind some woods where it could still shoot at some of my infantry. My Panther was now some 60 meters from the enemy infantry, and I was very worried that it could be hit by a bazooka. Then I saw one or two unidentified vehicles entering the town from the far end and swing to my right the disappear, and I fully expected them to appear behind my Panther within a couple of minutes. I ordered the Puma to the right through the town with the intention of flanking any such maneuver, but as the Puma passed within range of the top of the hill, it was killed by MG fire from the houses there. My 120 mm FO was killed while trying to direct fire near the top of the hill, and the rest of my artillery was gone. I decided to move up my reserve to take the top of the hill while I still had a sizeable amount of covering fire there, but they were mowed down before they reached the top, and the survivors hid in nearby buildings. I advanced the platoon on the left, abandoning the flag, to assault the hill from the side, but they were all routed after taking light casualties. I considered my situation: my infantry was taking heavy casualties and was on the verge of collapse, my Panther could not get a bead on the Sherman without advancing within meters of the enemy infantry, and a couple of enemy vehicles, armored cars or tanks, were threatening to appear behind my Panther at any moment. The enemy made a mistake and charged my Panther with the infantry, because the combined fire of the Panther and the supporting infantry drove them away disorganized. It was now or never, and I advanced my Panther a bit deeper then to the right advancing within some 50 m of the Sherman while simultaneously charging it with my infantry; the confused Sherman desperately back-pedaled out of the way, too late, and the Panther killed it with the first shot. At this point, all of the enemy nfantry near the Panther lost morale and ran for their lives, my battered infantry, the Panther and the 251/1 halftrack that I had brought up mowing them down. Now the initiative had shifted, and I directed my Panther back toward the center while my infantry and the halftrack mopped up behind. When the Panther reached the village, he spotted two enemy armored cars and quickly dispatched them, then joined the battle against the objectives. While this was going on, two enemy tanks and a fresh platoon of enemy infantry appeared near the left flag, captured it, and scattered the remnants of my infantry in the area, and began to approach the buildings in the center where I still had some infantry exchanging fire with the top of the hill. Now my left flank was gone and my center was in danger of collapse, so I ordered the Panther up the hill hoping that there were no bazookas in the area, while the halftrack and the infantry on my right approached the town and fired on the flag at the bottom of the hill. It turned out that the two tanks were a Sherman and a Stuart, and the Sherman climbed up the hill from where it sould fire at my infantry in different dirctions. I advanced the Panther and as it went around a building, came face to face with the Sherman; both tanks fired and apparently missed, although my opponent told me that the Sherman had received a gun hit. The Panther did not miss with his second shot, and now the initiative was at last all mine. There was still the Stuart, who eventually tried an end run around my position, but was nailed by the Panther before he could do much damage. The rest was routine: my battered infantry with the support of the Panther and the halftrack drove the enemy infantry out of their buildings then routed them as they ran through the open. A couple of HE shots from the Panther was usually enough to empty a building of enemy soldiers. I got a tactical victory, occupying all of the victory locations. Had my opponent succeeded in killing my Panther, I probably would have surrendered, because even without his tanks, his infantry would have massacred my hapless 80-year old Volksgrenadiers. It was probably a mistake for him to rush my tank, since the infantry could have attacked it better when it advanced to kill the Sherman. He also could have been more aggressive in bringing his armored cars up behind my Sherman, although he might have collided with some of my infantry. In a situation like this, it is usualy better to keep one's tanks in pairs, and if he had done so, it would have been practically impossible to kill the Sherman without risk of being flanked by the other. I probably made a mistake in letting him take the top objectives without opposition, but I was worried about getting clobbered by artillery. There is no doubt that the key element in this particular battle was the Panther, and it can be said without exaggeration that he practically won the battle all by himself, since he was the key element in every skirmish where I ended up on top. Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by aka_tom_w: It was a good game and it was fun, but I felt fairly powerless against The Panther from Hell. Is that how you saw it Henri? Actually I thought it was the Panther from HEAVEN! Now that I've copied my AAR from the Unenet forum to here, feel free to comment on my description, which I wrote from memory, as usual. Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by Kitty: No, but I'd like the next turn to our game, please. =) Kitty But I thought it was YOUR move, Kitty. I'll check it when I get home, maybe my last move got lost or something. I was attributing your delay in replying to shock over my mentioning that flamethrower approaching your last bunker.. Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harv Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 We (as in the CM community) have got to get Henri someplace where he can post his AAR's and maybe some screenshots too. They are a most enjoyable read, and I have learned a great deal from them also. Having them on a website would allow easy access for the masses, and would probably ensure that Henri never gets any sleep. As was stated on war-historical, a couple of screenshots would be great for seeing the action, but none can be posted there, and you need webspace to post them here also. Of course this is all easy for me to say, as I'm not the one doing the work (unless I learn HTML) but these AARs are just too good to let them fade away. Harv ps. I could convert and format the AAR's into Word or something. If I come up with an idea, I should do *something* to see it through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by Harv: ps. I could convert and format the AAR's into Word or something. If I come up with an idea, I should do *something* to see it through. I have most of them in Word format already, the big problem is screenshots, since I don't have a website to post them at, and for some AARs, I may have destroyed the files. Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest claespiper Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Why don't you ask MadMatt or Fionn at Combat Mission HQ http://combathq.thegamers.net/ if you can add your AAR's. They have a whole section for it http://combathq.thegamers.net/aars/aars.asp Regards Claes [This message has been edited by claespiper (edited 01-25-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 did someone say Show those Pics of the Battle? Screen shots you ask? Heres 6 shots from the end of the battle I opened the auto save file in PBEM mode on our last turn. ONE thing we both forgot to mention Major factor, we played at NIGHT and LOS distance was limited. In the middle of this shot is my dead HT, and a little out of the frame out to the left was where the first Sherm got nailed by the panther, I was doing well and having my way over there until the panther showed up, then BLAMO! no more sherm and he then routed all the rest of my infantry support. From Henri's starting point of view Over View: Henri attacked from the bottom and I started at the top how's that? And yes even though I lost I posted the pics and the AAR of my defeat. The only thing I might have done to save myself was to deploy my two Sherms close so they could gang up on the panther, but at night in big hills I figured they were better out on each flank. Oh well Henri played very well and that Panther did single handidly win him the game because it was ALWAYS well supported with infantry. -tom w [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 01-25-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by Henri: This AAR also illustrates how inept Volksgrenadier veterans (probably veterans from WW1) can be.Yes, they were on my side... You're thinking of Volkstrum. Volksgrenadiers were not any different than other German soldiers. It was just a different organization, like infantry '44. ------------------ You've never heard music until you've heard the bleating of a gut-shot cesspooler. -Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 What? no further posts no questions? Henri? I can't understand this ? No one cares about our little fire fight in the town last night anymore? Even after they asked us to post screen shots? Posted in good humour. -tom w [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 01-25-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted January 26, 2001 Author Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by aka_tom_w: What? no further posts no questions? Henri? I think your images may be too big, and it takes minutes to load the thread. This may discourage readers without cable modems. Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted January 26, 2001 Author Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by Phoenix: I am wondering though about the comment above. How would veteran VG's be "inept" compared to any other veteran unit? Lack of firepower? If I recall right, CM does not give specific troops any better or worse fighting capabilities based on "who they are". Atually different kinds of squads have different firepowers: for example a Volksgrenadier squad at 100 m has a firepower of 100, whereas a Fallschirmjager has a firepower of 190. Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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