aka_tom_w Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 OK I "would be nice" to have an updated printed manual.... (Yes I would be happy to buy a NEW manual with all the latest rule changes up to and including v1.12) since that isn't really likely to happen.... They aren't actually printing new v1.12 manuals are they? How about a downloadable .pdf doc that has ALL the latest rule changes from all the patches together with the update oringal rules in the manual? OR a RULES web site hosted by BTS that is like an online manual? I think there have been a geat many changes (all for the better of course) since the original manual came out. I would like to know for example (in writing from BTS) EXACTLY how the "sneak", move, and run commands work, and exactly how move and hunt and fast move for tanks is intended to work, and exactly what the benefit of hull down status is, and exactly what is the benefit of infantry hiding behind a stone wall? Is it really too much to ask or request a final set of rules to be posted as to how the game actually works and behaves now that it has been finalized? Sure there are notes and read-me's from each and every patch that have been released, but is it not fair to ask for a finalized version of the rules all posted together in on place or document? (I mention this because I think it might also help new players to the game ALOT, espescially regarding issues like Absolute spotting and LOS and LOF through live and dead non-burning vehicles) Your thoughts? -tom w [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 02-09-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 I think there is some concern that doing this would make it easier for software pirates to steal the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Originally posted by Terence: I think there is some concern that doing this would make it easier for software pirates to steal the game. Huh? How could that be? How's printing a new manuel aid in software pirating? I, for one, wouldn't mind in ordering/buying a new manual with the latest functions of the game. Besides, I liked reading the little editorial comments out to the side of a questionable rule or function. Brings back Forum memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Originally posted by Maximus: Huh? How could that be? How's printing a new manuel aid in software pirating? I, for one, wouldn't mind in ordering/buying a new manual with the latest functions of the game. Besides, I liked reading the little editorial comments out to the side of a questionable rule or function. Brings back Forum memories. I think he was referring to this - OR a RULES web site hosted by BTS that is like an online manual? Not gonna happen. [This message has been edited by Phoenix (edited 02-09-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellros Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 I think the pdf idea has some merit. But aren't the readme files for the patches enough? Are there really that many changes than would necessitate printing a new manual? just my 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Originally posted by Ellros: I think the pdf idea has some merit. Per Steve - And a big NO to a PDF version of the manual No need to make things easy for the software pirates... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Originally posted by Maximus: Huh? How could that be? How's printing a new manuel aid in software pirating? Phoenix has it right. An online or .pdf version of the manual makes things easier for software pirates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barleyman Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Well. They already DO have our addresses and emails and whatnot. After all, everyone did buy it from the BTS site.. But I quess it wouldn't take too long for the pdf manual to circulate even if it has limited availability.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Originally posted by Barleyman: But I quess it wouldn't take too long for the pdf manual to circulate even if it has limited availability.. That's pretty much the point of the entire medium. Didn't someone famous write once that the internet "interprets censorship as damage and works around it" or something? For the record [*tired sigh*]I do not equate the publishing or non publishing of a manual as censorhip of any kind. I merely mean that if you create a document and put it on the internet, its pretty hard to keep it from getting around to people who want to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 I'm a manual freak myself. I foresee picking up this game 15 years from now and giving it a whirl on my ancient P4 1.2 Ghz dust collector in the spare bedroom. An accurate, detailed manual might be nice to have at that moment to get me quickly up to speed. I'm actually considering putting together a revised CM manual that reflects the way things are as of 1.12 (since this is the final patch) for my own use, adding detail and explanation where I feel it is needed. This would not include any changes involving the scenario editor or scenario/ops design since I'm not overly concerned with that aspect of the software. Finding the time to do this is somewhat of a problem. Treeburst155 [This message has been edited by Treeburst155 (edited 02-09-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Space Thing Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Originally posted by Phoenix: Per Steve - And a big NO to a PDF version of the manual No need to make things easy for the software pirates... Heck, I can appreciate that. How about just making things easier for those of us who already bought the game. The manual as it is doesn't cover everything. Its a nice manual. Don't get me wrong. For instance, no where in it is there an explanation of what the red, yellow, or orange lines mean. (I had to search this site just to find out -for myself, and I'm still not certain that I know the correct answer.) Something that basic should have been in the manual. I would gladly pay a little more for a comprehensive manual for CMBO (to help the cause). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robeek Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Pardon my ignorance... But how does circulating a .pdf version of the manual help software pirates any? What damage can they do if they have it? I'd have to say the game is infinitely more interesting and valuable than the manual, myself. Not that I favor/disfavor a .pdf manual being created, just curious as to why it would be a bad thing to create such an e-text. (I'm sure the answer is going to be painfully obvious and make me feel real dumb, so be nice.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellros Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Clarification... A pdf of the entire manual I know is out of the question, but perhaps a pdf or WORD document, or even a plain txt file of all the changes perhaps? Even though the readme files from the patches do well enough for me. ------------------ "Mo matter where you go, there you are" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Originally posted by Robeek: Pardon my ignorance... But how does circulating a .pdf version of the manual help software pirates any? What damage can they do if they have it? I'd have to say the game is infinitely more interesting and valuable than the manual, myself. Not that I favor/disfavor a .pdf manual being created, just curious as to why it would be a bad thing to create such an e-text. (I'm sure the answer is going to be painfully obvious and make me feel real dumb, so be nice.) Robeek, With the explosion in the availability of CD burners, it is actually easier to copy the CD than to copy a written manual. Add to that the availability to high speed internet connections that makes it possible for people to download an entire image of the game CD. Not having the manual to go along with the CD or CD image makes the game less playable, thus less of a target for software pirates. Providing an electronic manual that is easily accessible via the net bypasses this protection. Unlurking momentarily, -Lurker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 I agree with lurker. BTS deserve to get as many bucks out of the game as possible and anything that aids scum ripping them and us the paying punter should be avoided. I print of the read-me's and that's adequate. ps I like CMBO so much i'm buying a further two copies for my brother and my son. ---- but i agree that the manual did miss a 'couple' of things out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 As far as I know, with each printing the manual does indeed get updated and completed. I am not sure in how far it reflects ALL the changes of 1.12, but with manuals it's always the same: they get usually done before the game/update is finished, so you can try as much as you want, but they almost never can be 100% complete. Or would you want to wait another month for 1.12 (or the game itself) because BTS is writing the manual? ------------------ "An hour has 60 minutes, each minute in action has a thousand dangers." - Karl-Heinz Gauch, CO 1st Panzerspähkompanie, 12th SS Panzerdivision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 You mean I gotta read! Humph, are there any pitures in it? ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted February 10, 2001 Author Share Posted February 10, 2001 Originally posted by Moon: As far as I know, with each printing the manual does indeed get updated and completed. I am not sure in how far it reflects ALL the changes of 1.12, but with manuals it's always the same: they get usually done before the game/update is finished, so you can try as much as you want, but they almost never can be 100% complete. Or would you want to wait another month for 1.12 (or the game itself) because BTS is writing the manual? OK One of the options I was requesting was the opportunity to buy the FINAL latest v1.12 manual (printed in hardcopy). Up to date and current with all the latest corrections and updates. Many of us here pre-ordered the game and have followed it (and hopely helped it grow and evolve and develop) through its many patches tweaks and updates and I for one would like the opportunity buy a v1.12 final manual. IF (BIG if) that manual will not be printed then I was requesting that perhaps some form of digital document, a word file or .pdf manual could be made available to those who are asking for it, by having it send in e-mail. I FULLY understand all the reasons why the downloadable digital manual would make things EASIER for pirates. I KNOW the app or software or game (whatever) is ALWAYS eaiser to download and pirate than the manual, this is true for ALL games and software. BUT here is the problem, I bought the GAME, I preodered it, AND I'm willing to PAY for an up to date final manual of v1.12. I would like to think there are some others here that would also like to buy the final manual. Perhaps the final manual (v1.12) could be offered for sale to registered owners of the the game, at a reduced price, and it could be SOLD to non-registered users (preseumably users of pirated copies of the game) for the FULL price of the game!! We all know that CMBO is available for download at pirate sites (this is not a BIG secret) Why not sell the final manual to non-owners of the game for the full price of the game?? Seriously, WHY not? Since I have already paid the full price of the game I would be willing to pay the cost of the final v1.12 manual plus some additional fee or amount that BTS could profit from and put towards CM2 development. So BTS will you sell me the v1.12 (final?) manual? Thanks -tom w [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 02-10-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elementalwarre Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 i'd guess when CM's in stock again it'll have a manual current for 1.1.2 i'll second what aka_tom_w says, i'd pay for a 1.1.2 manual too. BTS could minimize piracy by sending only 1 copy per registered owner who buys one. however, i don't know if it's worth it for BTS to run an extra x many manuals since they'd have to guess how many. perhaps if BTS sent an email to registered owners? in the meantime, how about formatting all post-1.0 changes into the same organization as the manual and posting that somewhere? this doesn't take BTS, any of us could do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AbnAirCav Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 Originally posted by aka_tom_w: I would like to think there are some others here that would also like to buy the final manual. Perhaps the final manual (v1.12) could be offered for sale to registered owners of the the game, at a reduced price ... I'm a "registered owner" and would purchase a "final" version 1.12 of the manual if it was offered for sale ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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