Seanachai Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Berlichtingen: I am really surprised to see you make this mistake. Contrary to our own freedoms? The Swastika is not completely banned in Germany. For instance, if you are writing a book on the history of the period, the swastika may be used. The are not allowed in games. As for our 'freedoms', when was the last time you saw nudity used in ads like it is in Europe, or when was the last time you saw a commercial on TV for cigarettes? The German law was enacted by a democratically elected government and as such is most definitely not contrary to our own freedoms. [steps off pulpit]<hr></blockquote> I bow to your corrections, and to your point of order. But I spoke from the framework of our own 'freedom of speech' culture, with First Amendment protection, which is granted a fuller protection than almost anywhere else on the planet. Right or wrong, you are more free to speak your mind on the American media than most places on the planet. And Berli, my smoking friend, you should acknowledge that Freedom of Speech in America is not the same as Freedom of Salesmanship. The Constitution enshrines freedom of 'self-expression', and the freedom of 'political speech'. It nowhere enshrines the concept of freedom to advertise. Here in America, we have, through our freely elected officials, enacted into law the concept that the need to make a buck is not all ways, and by all means, a protected right of expression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Seanachai: And Berli, my smoking friend, you should acknowledge that Freedom of Speech in America is not the same as Freedom of Salesmanship. The Constitution enshrines freedom of 'self-expression', and the freedom of 'political speech'. It nowhere enshrines the concept of freedom to advertise. Here in America, we have, through our freely elected officials, enacted into law the concept that the need to make a buck is not all ways, and by all means, a protected right of expression.<hr></blockquote> You miss the point entirely. It is not just in advertising that there are limits on what can be shown on US public television. The example I gave were simply the most obvious ones. Also, the use of a swastica in a game is more akin to an advertising issue than a freedom of expression issue. [ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Berlichtingen ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogadai Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Seanachai: I bow to your corrections, and to your point of order. But I spoke from the framework of our own 'freedom of speech' culture, with First Amendment protection, which is granted a fuller protection than almost anywhere else on the planet. Right or wrong, you are more free to speak your mind on the American media than most places on the planet. And Berli, my smoking friend, you should acknowledge that Freedom of Speech in America is not the same as Freedom of Salesmanship. The Constitution enshrines freedom of 'self-expression', and the freedom of 'political speech'. It nowhere enshrines the concept of freedom to advertise. Here in America, we have, through our freely elected officials, enacted into law the concept that the need to make a buck is not all ways, and by all means, a protected right of expression.<hr></blockquote> Excuse me, but what or rather who is being referred to in your comment "our freedom of speech culture"? You appear to forget, there are more than Americans or even Europeans who post here. You also appear, if I may say so, blind to the own contradictions in your polity if you believe your political system protects freedom of speech to the level you believe. There are many examples, even very recent ones of where your government has acted to inhibit freedom of speech. It is not quite the paragon of virtue you portray it as. No nation is without sin, either, not mine nor any other. Therefore, perhaps we should think carefully before we start to throw stones, hey? However, this has strayed somewhat from the purpose of this bulletin board and I for one think it should be locked down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mensch Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ogadai: You appear to forget, there are more than Americans or even Europeans who post here. <hr></blockquote> This comment is why most people have hostilities to most "American type" people. Do you use this mode of thinking when you are in a room with a majority of "white" people and make rude and slurred suggestions about other "cultures"? There is no diference here. Just because you Think there are more Americans here, does not give on the right to think you may post something harmful or insulting to people from other nations. There is a thing called Respect for others. <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ogadai: Therefore, perhaps we should think carefully before we start to throw stones, hey? <hr></blockquote> Good point Sir, maybe when people stop thinking they are the majority and then feel they have a RIGHT to slander or make jokes on the behalf of others we wouldn't be throwing stones <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ogadai: However, this has strayed somewhat from the purpose of this bulletin board and I for one think it should be locked down.<hr></blockquote> yes a lock maybe but the fact still stands some people need to be a wee bit Ejukated in the matter of politness, I guess some people will always think Germans are always Nazis or Masters who want to control Europe, here is some news for you.. they are not! Ask the Joe on the street here (germany) if they are patriotic or nationalistic and proud of thier country and you'll get not a Peep out of them, the people have been hammerd day in and day out to be ashamed, guilty and not Proud. It's the only country I know where it is shunned to be proud of ones country, to be quieted when one say "garsh this land is great" to be jeered at when you fly the national flag outside ones home to be guilty in sewing ones own flag on their backpack in fear of being considered Right wing! I'm a Canadian and damn proud of it, proud to put a Canadian flag on my jacket to put a flag outside my house.. and you know what it scares most Germans when they hear that! It scares them because they know where nationalism went and do not want to go there again. My wife can't understand how I can be so Proud of my Native country (it is alien to her and her family) It scares her more when I say I'm proud of the land I am currently living (Germany) does that make me a Rightwinger? no, does that make people here wonder if I am? Yes, I can't say I have totally gotten in the German Mind to understand how they tick but you know what, a comment about that EU flag was way WAY out of hand, the EU is that a group of nations wishing, hoping and building a better UNION. the EU was not forced by a country or a Alliance of countries this deal was all a choice, most countries voted if they wanted to be in it (heck the Danes decided not to be with it - Respect) do the other EU shun them? no. Do they blockade them on not being "European?" no. are they less European. NO. who's market is stronger? it does not matter we (general) are as strong as our weekest link (land for this matter) Ok I'm rambling here but, before one goes making coments that the EU is just a Greater Germany... I'm at a loss for words in describing my anger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Fieldmarshall: Also, those stupid kraut hypocrites, the next replacement for the German flag is displayed below: <hr></blockquote> Watch your tongue, and be careful who you call a 'kraut'! People on this board, including me, had to endure you blatant stupidity, non-existent education and questionable views regarding the world as a whole and especially WWII, for a very long time now. You would be better off if you started to think before you write about topics you don't understand. I just deleted several lines explaining the laws in question, but I'm already angry about the time I wasted in replying to your rubbish. [ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Lindan ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lindan: Watch your tongue, and be careful who you call a 'kraut'! People on this board, including me, had to endure you blatant stupidity, non-existent education and questionable views regarding the world as a whole and especially WWII, for a very long time now. You would be better off if you started to think before you write about topics you don't understand. <hr></blockquote> Hey, Lindan! Read my mind, didn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goanna Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 from Ogadai: No nation is without sin, either, not mine nor any other. That may well be true, but since you couldn't be bothered to put your location in your profile, how are we to know if you come from Mordor or Lorien? Bring on the shiny piece of steel. Hi mom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 This is off topic. Let's all get back to discussing CM, ok? Deputy Moderator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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