The Commissar Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzer Leader: Hey shut up about that "no cavalry" bit! I personally (deluded though I may be) have a VERY good feeling about cavalry. I think the gang is gonna manage to pull out a fast one and include the damn horses!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ah, your typical "newbius-ignoramus". Notice how it reacts with violence when people with more knowledge then it try to set it straight. Observe how it fails to "DO A SEARCH!" about a subject which has been discussed on and off longer then the newbie in question has been around. Now, let's watch as it is proven wrong by a simple search function with the words cavalry... Ta-da! For your reading enjoyment, a quote from Steve himself, from the following thread: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=015815 "Combat Mission is just not set up for horse. There would need to be special TacAI just for them, and that would be pretty tough to do. The modeling of the horses, graphically, would be a big undertaking. Remember, we have to program in behavior patterns. Legs don't inherently know they should stick to the torso and foot We would also have to come up with some sort of way to simulate mounts being shot out from under otherwise intact riders. With a horse "squad" unit and a rider squad unit, that would be very tough. Because of these and a few other reasons, no horses for the Eastern Front. As the quote of mine posted above says very well, we understand that they do have a place on the Eastern Front, but it is simply too small for the effort needed to simulate them. Therefore, no dice. Steve" [ 04-30-2001: Message edited by: The Commissar ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 Ah, your typical "newbius-ignoramus". Notice how it reacts with violence when people with more knowledge then it try to set it straight. Observe how it fails to "DO A SEARCH!" about a subject which has been discussed on and off longer then the newbie in question has been around.- The Commissar Nice one Commissar, post of the week caliber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 Gyrene wrote: The Sissi (Called Sissu in some sources) were Finland's very elite troops. They wreaked havoc behind Russian lines with their long range ski patrols and raids. 'Sissi' is the correct word. It means literally 'guerilla'. The other word 'sisu' is quite hard to translate exactly but 'grim determination' comes quite close. It is not certain whether the terms are etymologically related, since they both are very old. The earliest 'sissi' troops that I'm certain of were the guerilla fighters of the "Great Hatred" (1712-21). The most famous 'sissi' units of WWII were long-distance patrolmen who conducted recon missions and raids behind Soviet lines. They had mostly SMGs. Perhaps the most common squad type had 7 SMGs and 2 rifles (or 6 SMGs and 3 rifles). Very commonly the rifles were captured Soviet automatic or semi-automatic rifles. A 'sissi' squad also carried a good amount of demolition charges and anti-personnel mines. The organization of 'sissi' forces was light, with a company having usually 4-6 2-squad platoons. The units were small because 100 men is just about the absolute maximum number of men that can move through a forest without leaving trails that a blind man can follow. 'Sissi' troops had only rarely heavier weapons. Unto Korhonen, who fought for the whole war in the long-range recon patrol of the 14th Division, has stated that they had only once a LMG and then it was only because he was stupid enough to carry one on his first patrol. - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>May you elaborate where you see the connetion between "permanent drunk status" and Warsaw Uprising? I'll very appreciate it. Straif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The connection is either Dirlewanger or Kaminski, cant remember which, ordered the entire attack on Warsaw stopped when they captured a vodka distillery so he could get drunk. The Germans shot him several weeks later for this and other things he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 Perhaps Der Commisar is a little befuddled by current affairs, after all the world changes every day, but he is still stuck in the day that he bacame #2591 -- the proudest day of his life. Well, Sir, let me attempt to clarify my position. I know very well of the threads you speak, and INDEED I took part in a great majority of them, always defending my equine friends. And Sir because my number is higher than yours, does not necessarily mean I am a newbie, or is anyone with a number higher than yours a newbie? Perhaps "newbie" is not the correct word, why don't you instead call us all "youngsters" or "punks"? That seems to be more your speed. Needless to say, I am no newbie to this game nor many others, and I have read your posts in the past -- have you not mine? Hmmm... As for WHAT I said, I thought I made it clear (to clear-thinking people, that is) that my hopes were completely unfounded in rational thought, and that I was deluded to wish for something that I KNEW DAMN WELL had already been nixed, but I hope against all hope anyway. And you know what, your quickness to shut me down, only reinforces my belief that horses will be included, so naaaaaah.... [ 04-30-2001: Message edited by: Panzer Leader ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 My exhaustive list would be: German troops All current troops, plus Luftwaffe infantry, armored, mechanized. Possibly Luftwaffe elite (did the Hermann Goering division fight on the Eastern front, or primarily in Italy?). Einsatzenkommandos v. Partisans would be fun (though I don't know who would want to play the Germans in those). German Minor Allies Russian resistance units: Ukrainian nationalists; cossacks; Axis-partisans Finland: Sissi, Finnish infantry; Ski troops Romania: Infantry; armor; mechanized; mountain Hungarian: Infantry; motorized Italy: Infantry; CCNN (Blackshirts)(until 1943); Alpini; mechanized; armored; Celeri (mix of Motorized and cavalry); Parachute; Mountain Soviets Regulars: Ski troops; infantry; motorized; mechanized; armored; Naval; NKVD; Marines; engineers Guards: Infantry; motorized; armored; parachutists; engineers. Other: Partisans I'm sure I am overlooking a few. I didn't mention cavalry for obvious reasons. MrSpkr [ 04-30-2001: Message edited by: MrSpkr ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grisha Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 Soviet Guards! And, yes, Guards troops should be better than the average Soviet caliber of the time. Oh, and Soviets should improve with time on average. A good possible progression would be:<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>1941-1942: Green <LI>1943: Regular <LI>1944-45: Veteran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrSpkr: I didn't mention cavalry for obvious reasons. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Why not? Seriously, there's nothing wrong with having dis-mounted cavalry units in the game. Looking thru Zaloga's Red Army Handbook, Cav Squadrons seem to be the only units that have AT Rifle platoons integrated at the company (er - squadron) level. Other units which have an AT Rifle Plt/Co have them as part of the Battalion structure instead. Cav42 and Cav43 have 4 Platoons (each containing 2 Cav sections) per Squadron along with a Mortar ('42) or MMG ('43) platoon and an AT Rif platoon. Earlier Cav platoons ('39 and '41) integrate the mortar teams into the platoon. And the Light Cav divisions seem to have 3 platoons per squadron rather than 4. Would be an interesting unit. I hope they make it in. - Chris [Edit: added important smiley.] [ 04-30-2001: Message edited by: Wolfe ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolfe: Why not? Seriously, there's nothing wrong with having dis-mounted cavalry units in the game. Looking thru Zaloga's Red Army Handbook, Cav Squadrons seem to be the only units that have AT Rifle platoons integrated at the company (er - squadron) level. Other units which have an AT Rifle Plt/Co have them as part of the Battalion structure instead. Cav42 and Cav43 have 4 Platoons (each containing 2 Cav sections) per Squadron along with a Mortar ('42) or MMG ('43) platoon and an AT Rif platoon. Earlier Cav platoons ('39 and '41) integrate the mortar teams into the platoon. And the Light Cav divisions seem to have 3 platoons per squadron rather than 4. Would be an interesting unit. I hope they make it in. - Chris [Edit: added important smiley.] [ 04-30-2001: Message edited by: Wolfe ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hmm. I didn't realize the TOE was that different. That might be worth doing, then, at least in the early years of the war. Still, it would make me sad knowing that the Cavalry had no horses, and then that would remind me that there were no horse drawn carts . . . MrSpkr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther G Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 If there is going to be a scenario about the fall of Berlin, I think that there should be Hitler Youth. Panther G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 No one has mentioned Russian worker battalions, at least for urban-type scenarios. They could be easily modelled with conscript infantry, but few would have uniforms of any type so they might be worthy of their own units. TO&Es might well be out of date as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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