M8 Greyhound: the best unit in CM

[M. Bates]

The M8 Greyhound (armoured car) is the best the unit in CM for these reasons:

1) It is fast at 55mph, is still quick over grassy areas, and its turret is lightning fast.

2) It can frontally kill any German vehicle up to and including a Mark IV Panzer.

3) If it misses its first shot, it will always get another away because its turret normally stays with the target when the Greyhound is moving.

4) A German tank with a slow or very slow turret cannot kill a Greyhound which is moving from cover to cover and only showing itself briefly, and anti-tank guns have similar luck.

Anyway, those are my 4 reasons for thinking that the Greyhound is the best unit in Combat Mission. I have been on the receiving end of this unit, and I have also had it kill German tanks and then go on to kill enemy infantry with its number of HE (nearly 60 I think).

Anyone else care to agree or have other uses for this deadly vehicle??

[Guest wwb_99]

While their speed makes them difficult for German tanks to engage, one must remeber that their armor is very weak, in fact vulnerable to the good 'ol 20mm cannon found in many German armored cars, etc. I took two out, nearly simultaneously, with an SPW 250/9 (Halftrack with a 20mm turret on it). Got off three shots before the M8 could even respond, which lead to a really cool scene. The M8, still going 45 or so, cruized right by and smack into some woods before halting.

[Robert Mayer]

Well, the M8s I've used have done well enough, but generally don't have a long life expectancy. I've lost some to bogging, but usually it's a heavy MG or light cannon that takes them out. It's true the bigger tank guns can't slew fast enough to track, but the lighter guns on recon and support vehicles don't have that problem. And their armor is rather limited....

I rather think we gamers tend to use our light vehicles more aggressively than was historical, though I have no hard and fast data on this. Lacking the flexibility of real units (to be able to sneak and peak more effectively) and lacking the drive of self-preservation (send that Greyhound up against a PzKw IV? Sure, why not?), I suspect our tactics aren't 100% historical <g>.

[M. Bates]

But if the German player has no armoured cars left, a Greyhound is mighty difficult to get rid of... true, they have weak armour, but I have never seen a Tiger for example follow one at close range with its turret and hit a Greyhound.

[M. Bates]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>(send that Greyhound up against a PzKw IV? Sure, why not?)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In my latest PBEM game I have seen two of my Greyhound take out THREE Veteran IVs.

I think that the speed of Greyhounds on grass needs to be toned down.

Most of my ongoing PBEM games have me or my opponent zipping Greyhounds all over the map, from tree cover to tree cover, and the German tanks can't do a thing.

[109 Gustav]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M. Bates:

I have never seen a Tiger for example follow one at close range with its turret and hit a Greyhound.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but even a Sherman can outrace a Tiger's turret on dry grass, if it's closer than about 200m, and is traveling so that the tiger is shooting at maximum deflection.

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No one but the enemy will tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you where he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you. -Ender's Game

[Ron]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I rather think we gamers tend to use our light vehicles more aggressively than was historical, though I have no hard and fast data on this. Lacking the flexibility of real units (to be able to sneak and peak more effectively) and lacking the drive of self-preservation (send that Greyhound up against a PzKw IV? Sure, why not?), I suspect our tactics aren't 100% historical.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No doubt, Pumas, Greyhounds and Daimlers commanded by Audie Murphy types seems to be the norm rather than the exception.

Ron

[aka_tom_w]

yes I agree

The M8 is Fast (too fast? oh, I hope not, it needs its speed or it would be less survivable)

and it is leathal

and hard to hit with slow moving heavy German turrets

overall: Good bang for the buck

-tom w

[Kingfish]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M. Bates:

The M8 Greyhound (armoured car) is the best the unit in CM for these reasons:

1) It is fast at 55mph, is still quick over grassy areas, and its turret is lightning fast.

2) It can frontally kill any German vehicle up to and including a Mark IV Panzer.

3) If it misses its first shot, it will always get another away because its turret normally stays with the target when the Greyhound is moving.

4) A German tank with a slow or very slow turret cannot kill a Greyhound which is moving from cover to cover and only showing itself briefly, and anti-tank guns have similar luck.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The M18 Hellcat gives you all this, and it's natural prey doesn't stop at the Mark IV, but keeps going to include the King Tiger in certain circumstances.

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...This is Romeo-Foxtrot, shall we dance?...

[Chupacabra]

BTS has stated that wheeled vehicles' offroad speed will be toned down in the next patch.

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Grand Poobah of the fresh fire of Heh.

[Lawyer]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ron:

No doubt, Pumas, Greyhounds and Daimlers commanded by Audie Murphy types seems to be the norm rather than the exception.

Ron<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! I totally agree, but I also have a feeling German Audie Murphy's didn't run around leading assaults with so many SP flak guns or armored cars sporting 50mm and 75mm guns.

Within the context of CM-style combat, the Greyhound is the most useful Allied asset for the cost, along with the 81mm mortar. I use 'em and love 'em.

I support using realistic force mixes and tactics, but much of the fun in CM comes from using large doses of Audie Murphy's individual bravery and Patton's aggression. Fortunately, only the pixels die and we can fight again another day.

[M. Bates]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>LOL! I totally agree, but I also have a feeling German Audie Murphy's didn't run around leading assaults with so many SP flak guns or armored cars sporting 50mm and 75mm guns.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who's Audie Murphy? Is he that famous decorated American soldier?

Anyways, there are far too many people using armoured cars with 50mm and 75mm guns as "tanks lite".

I mean, so the Greyhound is not a tracked vehicle, BIG DEAL. The same goes for various incarnations of the Puma. They all have good guns and they are bloody fast. I NEVER buy light tanks, because I can use my armour points on medium and heavy tanks, and I can bet that I can buy an armoured car which will do the same job, if not better, than a light tank.

Because they are cars, they won't stop and get shot to bits.

If I give a tank a fast move order, it will stop when it sees an enemy tank, and more often than not it gets knocked out.

The armoured car on the other hand will carry on moving to cover, and will get off a shot as well.

At the end of the turn it is still alive and is ready to cause more agitation, if not damage.

[Colin]

The Greyhound can easily withstand 20mm rounds. In a recent PBEM my opponent had a 20mm FlaK cannon and it just sat bouncing rounds off of the front. Check the penetration values.

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[Bobbaro]

Dear cousin across the pond, M. Bates. First of all A. Murphy was a Texan. That is sufficient. Incidental information: He was the most decorated US soldier of WWII, including the Congressional Medal of Honor. You may be already knowledgeable about these details as well as other accomplishments of this gentleman and just teasing a bit. On the otherhand I am sure U.K. and the Commonwealth produced its share of fellows, who performed rather well under the circumstances. One thing that I feel as an absence, is a shortage of iterature over here giving frontline detailed accounts of those long suffering and brave men's performances in the first person, or even very much as historical accounts. One interesting read I have was by a U.S. Citizen, who volunteered into British service and gave his story of service with a Gurka outfit. But, the vast majority of books are of American origin about American participation. The shortage of translations from tounges other than English are more understandable in the book trade, but English language works puzzle me a bit. It seems to me that the market here would support it. I think I have seen more German first person accounts than English or Commonwealth.

We read stuff here from such members as tss of the Winter War which are just about totally inaccessable in English, as least in common channels as far as I am aware.

Stories that cross national boundries like this are additionally revealing because of fresh eyes seeing and reporting on what is old hat to the nationals involved. I have another book that details U.S. service by a German national whose Nazi hating parents immagrated. The author as a youngster witnessed the work of the SS recruiter and makes very understandable the appeal of the imgages and trappings of military elitism with its common man social culture to a youth for whom politics and affairs yet to have any meaning. I don't know the appropriate expression for that place and time, but it would translate,"How cool! I can't wait until I am old enough." Ironically, he later participated in active service against his former countrymen. I have heard of Americans, who found themselves in Germany with dual citizenship and conscripted by law or circumstances into German service. Once caught up like that, it becomes a matter of survival.

[Guest grunto]

the greyhound at 83 points costs too much.

if you want to give yourself an unfair advantage as americans, load up on m8 hmc assault guns.

the american m8 hmc is the best afv in the game for the price... and this is probably by far.

i still like my greyhounds but man they're _so_ expensive compared to the m8 hmc.

andy

[Juardis]

I had a Greyhound take out a Tiger, from the front.

Having said that, I prefer the M24 Chafee. Bigger gun, faster turret, more armor, more MGs, only slightly more expensive. Not quite as fast though, but the trade offs are worth it IMHO.

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Jeff Abbott

[M. Bates]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Dear cousin across the pond, M. Bates. First of all A. Murphy was a Texan. That is sufficient. Incidental information: He was the most decorated US soldier of WWII, including the Congressional Medal of Honor. You may be already knowledgeable about these details as well as other accomplishments of this gentleman and just teasing a bit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't mean to sound dismissive, I remembered that they made a movie of America's most decorated soldier, and "Murphy" rang a bell.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>But, the vast majority of books are of American origin about American participation. The shortage of translations from tounges other than English are more understandable in the book trade, but English language works puzzle me a bit. It seems to me that the market here would support it. I think I have seen more German first person accounts than English or Commonwealth.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't really explain this either, perhaps those who had served in the armed services were a bit "war weary". The first hand accounts are valuable, otherwise wars will not get remembered from that perspective, only by anti-war poems, I think this has already happened to some extent with the First World War.

[Jarmo]

That's one thing I love in CM.

We have half a dozen guys praising that little car up to high heaven,

and the we have grunto and me thinking it's not nearly worth the price.

[Chupacabra]

I think it's worth the price, and well-handled it can be effective, but I definitely don't think it's some sort of uberweapon. I also wonder how folks'll feel about it after the next patch...

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Grand Poobah of the fresh fire of Heh.

[M. Bates]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I also wonder how folks'll feel about it after the next patch...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even if I have proffited from their effectiveness, I hate the little bastards, so I am primarily looking forward to this new patch which will "hobble" the Greyhound.

(Of course, I don't refer to hobbling real-life greyhounds, just the cars in CM).

[Guest kking199]

Not sure why but I have a special affinity for the Stuart and the Greyhound. Something about speed and the fast firing 37mm just warms my heart.

I just attacked with a M8 sneaking from the back, my intention was to attack a Panther, and then "hopefully" also get a shot on an assault gun. My approach was covered by a small rise, 30m past this rise sat the Panther with the AG another 100m. When I pop onto the back side of the rise the Panther goes from a unit to the Iron Cross, so I think, well I guess he moved?!?! This happened at the very end of the turn. I assume the Panther has moved and the M8 has the AG targeted so I leave my prior orders stand. Next turn the M8 continues it's move on the rise then as already planned reverses back for cover. Second shot takes out the AG but the Panther is there! He begins to turn and his turret slowly moves around... but he is unable to get a shot off before I reverse behind the rise. Whew... however I am not sure if I can get my M8 out of there, my plan almost worked. Still strange how the Panther "disappeared" as I popped the rise but nonetheless a fun exchange. On the flip side I have my opponent worried about the rear flank...

[Pak40]

Someone already said this but the M18 Hellcat gives you everything you just mentioned plus the punching power of a 76mm gun.

The M18 also moves at 55 mph and has a lightning fast turret.

However, it does cost a little more than the M8 and has less overall rounds, especially HE. It also probably has a slower rate of fire. Another negative factor is that it is bigger than the M8, presenting a bigger target to the enemy.

I agree though, the M8 is an excellent vehicle for scouting and flanking.

[M. Bates]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Someone already said this but the M18 Hellcat gives you everything you just mentioned plus the punching power of a 76mm gun.

The M18 also moves at 55 mph and has a lightning fast turret.

However, it does cost a little more than the M8 and has less overall rounds, especially HE. It also probably has a slower rate of fire. Another negative factor is that it is bigger than the M8, presenting a bigger target to the enemy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very true, BUT you forget something very important.

The Greyhound gives you superb light tank functionality but it costs NO Armor points!!

So you can stack up on the heavy and medium tanks, without wasting armor points on light tanks!!

[Guest grunto]

my understanding is that, in the actual war the greyhound had a terrible turning radius. i wonder - assuming that were actually the case - if that will someday be represented in combat mission.

whether that is ever represented in cmbo or not, i hope that the various wheeled vehicles don't all get 'penalized with equanimity across the board' in the next patch.

for instance the m3a1 scout car was supposed to have had terrible off-road performance, and this was one of the major reasons for the adoption of the greyhound instead.

andy

[chrisl]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M. Bates:

The Greyhound gives you superb light tank functionality but it costs NO Armor points!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's why I like the PSW 234/3 (thanks to Grunto). It's speedy, it's got a decent gun, and it actually brings it to bear faster than the Puma with it's little 50.

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Slayer of the Original Cesspool Thread.