Guest Pillar Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 Would anyone be interested in a complete, Battalion level attack tutorial done in CM? I'm thinking about doing one that would demonstrate recon pull, reserve employment, attack technique, arty use, etc. Something I wish I had when I was learning the game If there seems to be some interest and people are willing to help design a map, I'll do it. Scales will be realistic, and using Version 1.1. [This message has been edited by Pillar (edited 11-30-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStrike Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 Absolutely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JigVictor07 Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 A very good idea! JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 I'd be interested. For me personally, battalion level engagements is where CM really gets interesting because of the enormous flexibility you get in unit purchase mix and doctrine. I'd love to see how others do it. ------------------ You mean my Java coded Real Time Bar Fight Simulator Madmatt Mission: Beyond BiteMe ISN'T going to be published?!? Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasd Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 YES! An attack tutorial would be great for me, because I absolutely SUCK at attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 Yes yes yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Sedai Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pillar: Would anyone be interested in a complete, Battalion level attack tutorial done in CM? I'm thinking about doing one that would demonstrate recon pull, reserve employment, attack technique, arty use, etc. Something I wish I had when I was learning the game If there seems to be some interest and people are willing to help design a map, I'll do it. Scales will be realistic, and using Version 1.1. [This message has been edited by Pillar (edited 11-30-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes!! Also, if you could include support vehicles like Halftracks etc. ------------------ Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeski Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 Yes Pillar that would be great! ------------------ "If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them." - Jack Handey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralsaw Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 Please do so Pillar. Most of us talk, but few of us do things for the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangorn Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 Yes, Pillar will show us all how not to attack after our game, right Pillar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 I happen to have an operation map that begs for a battalion-scale battle. Let me know if you want to use it. [This message has been edited by Tris (edited 11-30-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackal Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 Great idea. What would you consider to be a good troop composition for an Infantry Bn? Armored Bn? I would enjoy anyone's thought on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 OK, send me your op map Tris. Anyone else that has a decent map they'd like to send me, please do. I think a single battle might work better to demonstrate the breakthrough phase, which is really what CM is all about. Rolling up the flanks and gutting the rear is sort of easy once that's done, provided you can reorient your forces quickly. Tony, I will respond to you via email as per your message. Oh poor Fangorn, perhaps I should do a public AAR of our game and shame you in front of the community? PS -- Stop sueing for a ceasefire, it's not going to happen. SURRENDER! [This message has been edited by Pillar (edited 11-30-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangorn Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 Tsk...tsk... wanna show the public your great armor tatic sense in your first game, Pillar? *That* would make a great AAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutPL Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 Would love to play as your opponent, Pillar. Try some recon destruction against your recon pull! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 Well ScoutPL my friend, at least we agree on the importance of strong counter recon. The true question now, is are you in favour of an American style linear counterrecon screen or one in depth OPFOR style as I am? BAH! Fang, The infamous "M18 Rush" is never to be mentioned. Do I sense a Peng Thread II starting here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gezeder Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 I think that would be great - while I feel confident enough in Company level battles, I'm at a complete loss for larger battles. One question though, would you be playing the AI in this tutorial? Would it mabye be better to have a human play the defence? After all, the AI doesn't really play the same way most humans do.... (I think) If you were fighting a co-operative human opponent, you could even agree on the sort of defence you'd be fighting, (ie. static defence) - that way the battle would be more of a controlled situation, where we can concentrate just on the tactics involved. (Don't mind me, just kicking around a few ideas....) Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 Matt, The ONLY problems with doing it as an AAR is that: A) If my worthy opponent does exceptionally well, then I don't get a chance to go through a complete tutorial. Beginners tend to confuse play ability with tactical principles. Since this is a tutorial for beginners, that wouldn't be good. However, using the AI has it's weaknesses obviously... They don't know how to use reinforcements and they don't know how to fall back. In sum, they don't know tactics. I'm thinking about maybe playing BOTH sides. I'll do a classic BLUEFOR doctrine defence and show how the OPFOR breaks through it. Then later I'll do a tutorial on battalion level defence OPFOR style and use a BLUEFOR attack to demonstrate. What do the rest of you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutPL Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 Sure you want to do that Pillar? I'm not sure I would. By describing your tutorial on that level you're setting the mark pretty high for yourself. I'm school trained by one side in that propsoal of yours and I'm not sure I would lable a tutorial I did like that. May be better to call it "how to be successful at playing CM with examples of both doctrines as you understand them." Just be careful how you lable it. You might be opening yourself up to some real nitpicking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 Good idea. I'll write a nice disclaimer to keep all nitpickers at bay. The principles will still be there however, for those who wish to see them. I've poured through many many field manuals and articles over the past month, so it shouldn't be too off the mark. I'm also going to be using the "Handbook on Germany Military Forces" which was published by the U.S. War Department to guide the attack. In sum, this will be as accurate as I my ability can take me. In any case, unless you are a VERY hardcore historian, you should come across contented with the way this will be done. Furthermore, I'm going to try and get some feedback during the course of the battle to make sure things are being portrayed accurately. I have your email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 OK, I've got the initial setup and map completed. I'm using a map called "Squeeze Play", which I have modified slightly by expanding the width (the attack sector) to over 1km. This is an accurate scale for a Mechanized Battalion attack. (German Handbook on Military Forces, U.S. War Department) The map also includes an airport. This is the perfect excuse for me to up the defender forces and make this more interesting. Why? Normally a Battalion would be attacking maybe only a single company in an ideal breakthrough attempt. Unfortunately, while that would do very nicely to demonstrate a larger scale tactical operation, it wouldn't give much challenge to a sectoral tutorial. By giving the Allied defence an almost equal number of men (but non-mechanized of course), it makes it much more challenging. Maneuvering in 1km of front against an entire Rifle Battalion will definitely be something we can work with. Again though, I stress this situation wouldn't be a General's idea of good tactical maneuver. The General would much prefer to attack a poorly defended sector at less than Battalion strength. If the Grogs feel this is too unrealistic and I should weaken the defending forces, I will. So, this is going to be an attack against a recently prepared allied line. Axis: "PzGrendier Battalion (Armd)" Reinforced with Arty Support Allied: Rifle 44 Battalion Reinforced with a Tank Platoon and 75mm AT Guns +Additional 4.2 inch mortar support Allied defence include a security line (counter-recon), the MLR, and supporting weapons throughout. Allies will attempt to: 1) Ambush my recon forces 2) Fall back 3) Repeat (hopefully destroying remaining recon) 4) Fall back to MLR 5) Hold until penetration 6) Fall back to last stand This is a basic limited depth defence for this scale. I'll attempt to penetrate it by: 1) Finding weakspots with a broad front recon 2) Commiting massive amounts of firepower at the weakpoint 3) Penetrating and reorienting to cuttoff retreat and reestablishment. Finally, something important to keep in mind: I'm doing this for FUN. I don't claim to be the next Napoleon or Scipio. This is geared to the vast majority of forum members who HAVEN'T read many real world Field Manuals and Tactical Histories. There has yet to be a tutorial on a Battalion level engagement in CM. I intend to make one. That does not mean this is the LAST or the BEST tutorial. Hopefully, other experienced players will follow suit. I'd also like to refer inteterested readers to the latest developing AAR by Fionn and Claymore. Fionn is using some very sound defensive tactics which I can only vaguely attempt to convey through my attack tutorial. Thanks to Fionn in particular for all of his advice. Email me with any questions. Hopefully this won't take too long to put together! [This message has been edited by Pillar (edited 12-01-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 Pilar, Allow me to ask if you could possible send me a copy of both the scenario and the tutorial text? Thanks in advance Griffin. ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 If there are no objections to what I've proposed, and if none of the grogs correct me or suggest any changes, I'll probably have the setup/map/brief complete and ready within a day or two. At that point I'll send you a copy. I'm going to try and set this up as a pbem game against myself so that people can download the .txt files and view the movies themselves. There will be NO pictures, that simply takes too much time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 ScoutPL, Would you be interested in playing the defender in this ? But you'll get 2 companies to my forces as outlined above. This is a reasonable ratio. [This message has been edited by Pillar (edited 12-01-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 Pillar, I have room on my site and would be glad to: 1) spectate 2) post/host the turn files 3) post some of what I consider to be the cool pictures. Right now it just has some junk on it from a PBEM (a bunch of 105 hits on a Sherman, and a 170mm hitting between 2 M3's) http://home.cox.rr.com/herroberst Let me know. ------------------ To the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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