Fionn Posted February 16, 2000 Share Posted February 16, 2000 http://www.gamersvoice.com/special/gca-1999-4.asp Read it and weep wargamers. The best WARGAME nominations were Antietam (ok, good wargame) Age of Empires II ( WTF? It's an RTS.) Close Combat IV ( An uncomfortable mix between RTS and wargame veering more towards RTS territory with each iteration of the series IMO) TOAW 2 ( Another wargame. Strategical level too.) Panzer General 3D Assault ( Assault on my sense more like.) Ok, we have TWO solid wargames, 1 solid RTS, 1 rock-paper-scissors game (PG3) and Close Combat IV which is a wargame but quite flawed IMO. I could definitely support Antietam getting the award. I wouldn't be surprised if TOAW2 got it and could even live with CC4 getting it since it didn't make huge claims about being historically accurate etc (they learnt from CC3 it seems). So AOE2 gets the award for best WARGAME. It seems even computer magazines don't know what a wargame is these days. AOE2 is a STRATEGY game*sigh*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted February 16, 2000 Share Posted February 16, 2000 Well, Gamersvoice is only one of many review mags or sites. It hasn't demonstrated to me yet to have the kind of solid thinking in WARGAME reviews as might be found instead at gamesdomain (one of my favorites), GamersNet, Gamespot, cdmag, Wargamers, etc. I could support SMA too, but I, like far too many other SMG fans, had the greater hope by '99-'00 for an ACW game that would've had a more involved (turn-based?) attached campaign engine than to just do another set-piece battle like SMA did. The historical setting of Antietam isn't very compelling to me either, because it took an inordinate amount of command apathy on McClellan's part to bring about the historical result. I would give the higher nod to TOAW2. Ironic that TOAW1 scooped up all of the praise and accolades for last year compared to TOAW2, when TOAW2 provided a MUCH-improved combat resolution engine, equipment options, and events editor. (Regrettably, though, the documentation wasn't up to snuff to help scenario designers take advantage of these.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted February 16, 2000 Share Posted February 16, 2000 ROFL! Sarcasm on Age of Empires eh? These guys really know their stuff. Sarcasm off I vote for SP:WW2, that is ! Helge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Posted February 16, 2000 Share Posted February 16, 2000 CC4 and AOE2.... What the hell do they consider as "wargames" ! Another vote for SpWWII... Na! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted February 16, 2000 Share Posted February 16, 2000 For those who are (still) interested in Close Combat IV: go to my little page to find a brand-new 3D visualization of the "Clerf" map in section 2 ! Regards, Thomm ------------------ Some stuff at http://www.fortunecity.com/olympia/simpson/870/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Boot Posted February 16, 2000 Share Posted February 16, 2000 I nominate FIFA2000 as wargame of the year. Have you ever been 4-0 down just to score the winning goal 6 minutes into injury time against you former best friend? Now that's war for you. ------------------ The first casualty when war comes is truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted February 16, 2000 Share Posted February 16, 2000 Seems to me that the CM beta far beat every one of those games! Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Boot Posted February 16, 2000 Share Posted February 16, 2000 True ------------------ The first casualty when war comes is truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerLeader Posted February 16, 2000 Share Posted February 16, 2000 AOE, CC4...Now that's wargaming's decadence... If only I knew the email adresses of all the idiots who voted for these two games I'd play a few nasty tricks on them and hunt them down with computer viruses Long live CM, WF/EF2, TOAW, SP WW2, and other realistic wargames!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 16, 2000 Share Posted February 16, 2000 uhhh CM is a wargame of 2000 not 1999... ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerLeader Posted February 16, 2000 Share Posted February 16, 2000 Colin, we're talking about the beta demo, which was released early in november 1999 if I remember well!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 17, 2000 Share Posted February 17, 2000 Ya I know I wasn't even reading the thread I just decided to post a useless message. Hehehe...I just ordered CM and I'm feeling good.. ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Posted February 17, 2000 Share Posted February 17, 2000 Please don`t laugh but I think that the best War Game is M-1 Tank Platoom II. I played like I play Combat Mission ´(With comands and waypoints) and its really good. I can´t understand why Combat Mission doesn´t have the same grafics. The infantry looks really good. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanE Posted February 17, 2000 Share Posted February 17, 2000 I think "Dress Up Barbie" won their best Sports game of the year award. It was a tough call but Barbie does have that little cheerleader outfit so they were able to call it a sports game afterall. ------------------ Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted February 17, 2000 Share Posted February 17, 2000 Colin's actually got the right point. We should rather hope that CM makes the running for "Best wargame of 2000" instead of clamoring that the CM demo is the best wargame of 1999. 1999 is past us. Because sorry, folks, the CM beta demo is still just that: a demo. Steve just mentioned a week ago anyway what a world of difference now exists between this demo and the upcoming full version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarDog Posted February 17, 2000 Share Posted February 17, 2000 Accepting the logic that CM Beta is a demo and not a game-put my vote in the SP:WW2 column. Gotta give it extra mention as it was a freebie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hundminen Posted February 17, 2000 Share Posted February 17, 2000 Just a note of warning... Never mind the fact that AOEII isn't even a wargame - it isn't even a decent game, period! I don't even classify it as a RTS game! It is an ACTION game - whoever clicks the fastest wins. I think most visitors to this board would be sorely disappointed by AOEII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted February 17, 2000 Share Posted February 17, 2000 Yes, I don't think you can include a "game-of-the-year" nominee with only just a Demo. Believe me, Combat Mission will sure to be nominated and most probably win the Best Wargame of the Year 2000. That is, of course, the general public doesn't go blowing their loads on RTS games like the up and coming Star Trek: New Worlds, and Star Wars: Force Commander. SW:FC, by the way is starting to shape up into a decent looking game. Just checked out the LucasArts.com site earlier today. It's looking a lot like CM in a way, but of course, it's just another click fest, maybe, but with a storyline. Same goes for New Worlds too, I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted February 17, 2000 Share Posted February 17, 2000 I don't get the AoK thing. It ain't no wargame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted February 17, 2000 Share Posted February 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pirate: I don't get the AoK thing. It ain't no wargame. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh I agree. However,I do have the game, it's mierly a RTS game with the ol' R&D feature. Perhaps the entertaining feature to this game is that all 13 civilizations have a limited tech-trees. This makes each civy unique in its strengths. For instance, the Britons are strong in Archers, the Celts are strong with Foot Infantry and Siege Weapons, the Chinese strong in Infrasturcture, the Vikings strong in Naval Units, the Mongols strong in Cavalry Units, the Turks strong with Gunpowder Units, the Teutons strong in Defense with 2X hold capacity in "guard towers", etc... So I believe this is why the game is so popular. The wide variety of different strengths via tech-trees and civy bonuses. But again, I agree that AoKs is NOT a true Wargame. NOW if it contained a true historic strategic campaign game where you plan where to go on a grand strategic map, that would be better than the generic scripted campaign missions, then YEAH, it WOULD be considered a Wargame. ------------------ "I want you to remember that...no bastard ever won a war...by dying for his country...He won it...by making the other poor dumb bastard...die for his country."--George S. Patton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraut Posted February 18, 2000 Share Posted February 18, 2000 Soon, quake will be classified as a wargame. I mean, it has guns right? You can kill people in masses, right? (very important in a wargame, ey? Sorta like cc4 where the blood of the infantryman flows in streams) Why don't they just push it one step further and put deer hunter into the wargame genre?! Noone freakin' knows what kinda game that is anyways ... lol Anything that will "sell" thier crap ... MK ps. cc1 was a wargame, cc2 was too, cc3 sucked, and cc4 is a damn joke. Can't wait to see cc5 (sarcasm of course) pps. All IMHO of course ... [This message has been edited by Kraut (edited 02-17-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted February 18, 2000 Share Posted February 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kraut: Soon, quake will be classified as a wargame. I mean, it has guns right? You can kill people in masses, right? (very important in a wargame, ey? Sorta like cc4 where the blood of the infantryman flows in streams) Why don't they just push it one step further and put deer hunter into the wargame genre?! Noone freakin' knows what kinda game that is anyways ... lol Anything that will "sell" thier crap ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> know what really sucks? in about 6 months, FPS shooter engines and mod designers will know how to build the perfect 1st person wargame. This will be great for those of us that like the idea of playing a dogface in a squad in a fire fight, but may spell the death knell of the wargame because the designers of these mods start makling simply strategic shells, many former wargamers will be sueadeded. Ithink thatthe idea of a FPS with a real wargame shell like Total Air ar for the FPS would be totally cool. I alos think that it may wipe out... or retard oprational or squad level games for years because the differences might get overlooked for a while.... Of course I could be trying to get my membership rating back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iggi Posted February 18, 2000 Share Posted February 18, 2000 What will WW2online be? Action, Simulation, Strategy or war??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted February 18, 2000 Share Posted February 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kraut: Soon, quake will be classified as a wargame. I mean, it has guns right? You can kill people in masses, right? (very important in a wargame, ey? Sorta like cc4 where the blood of the infantryman flows in streams) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> On a more serious note, keep in mind that the media aren't discrimating in game definitions when it relates to their preferred agendas. Last year, in the wake of the Littleton (Colorado) shooting spree, early news reports cited that the two killers "liked playing wargames" before it was later detailed that those guys instead liked FPS's like Doom or Quake. So, Kraut, in the eyes of the news media, such a crossover definition has already happened. It can easily happen again, usually with some attached negative publicity for "wargames." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jern Posted February 18, 2000 Share Posted February 18, 2000 Dear Fionn, first, I'm a fan as well from CM Beta. Said that, anyone knows that I will say everything in favour of CM. But Fionn, so far when I read your articles, you have been for me a kind of a neutral person (read, taking a neutral stance on all games). But reading your above statement (you clearly say IMO), you have lost that. I will see you from now on only as a fan of CM, whenever I read something from you (TGN or somewhere else). To be a fan of something is not bad, I'm a fan of one sports club, but you don't qualify anymore as a person with a neutral perspective. What I don't like as well is the way you are pushing these "followers" into a direction and making everything else bad. Unfortunately, there are enough "followers" who are blindly taking up your opinion a la "give me the e-mail and..." This just expresses my opinion. I don't want to attack anyone and I hope I'm not flamed for this, but reading this thread I had to write something. Jern B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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