Guest aaronb Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chupacabra: Ebb and flow. The game's been out for a while, major design issues have pretty much been talked to death, consensus has pretty much been reached. If you want discussion, there's always usenet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Agreed. The sheer number of talked-to-death subjects makes it likely that those who know something 'useful' have already talked about it and are tired - so now the board has a new function: community building. This community helps the success of the game. The transition period, which I hope will never complete, as I enjoy the tech discussions as much as does Pillar - creates a culture clash between the serious folk, like Pillar, and the seriously loony, like Peng. Try comp.sci.military.moderated for modern stuff, and I don't know what for WWII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterk Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 Well, a lot of those old, really interesting discussions happened before there was a game to play and we were all waiting in ambush at our mailboxes for the package. We're probably all "busy", having fun playing the game now and the forum has become less a part of the daily routine. Stick around, I'm sure you'll see the board erupt again as we get closer to CM2. And...hamsters are damn funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 Untill we get cranking on CM2, the way things are going now (and have been going for about 4 months BTW) will continue. As someone that has been on this BBS since before it was started (neat trick, eh? ), I can tell you for a fact that there is still much in the way of valuable conversations going on here. For example, a recent discussion of pillboxes uncovered a bug and sparked me (yeah, I take FULL credit for this one ) to suggest to Charles that AT pillboxes should get an accuracy bonus because they would already have their targets ranged in. Without the discussion who know when, if ever, these changes would have been made. The community building is also important to us. So that right there makes this BBS valuable. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: The community building is also important to us. So that right there makes this BBS valuable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> An obvious, if veiled, reference to the Peng Thread. Community at it's finest. ------------------ "THAT DUCK SHALL NOT HAVE DIED IN VAIN!" - Senachai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawBroon Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Croda: An obvious, if veiled, reference to the Peng Thread. Community at it's finest. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not to mention the obvious fact that the Peng Thread has any target already ranged and thus benefits from a +2 in Posting Spree. ------------------ And NO Bauhaus I didn't say SELF EXPLORATORY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kking199 Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 Being only a Cm'er for 8 weeks or so and my understanding of the community that existed before the release I believe what you are experiencing in part is the natural evolution of the forum as the game's player base has grown significantly. Because CM is so good, you will have a great deal of folks buying the game and coming here who are not diehard grognards. I figure I am somewhere between the casual and the grognard. I read WWII history pretty much exclusively now but realise how little I know compared to the diehard WWII nut who has been doing it for 10+ years. I also sense an unwillingness here to divulge tactics/strategies to military simulation newbies. Part of this is we have beaten this topic to death already, and the sink or swim mentality, which I have no problem with. My other sense is simply that those of you who were here 12+ months ago had built a very tight, close community. This original community on the forum has been lost with the introduction of hundreds, thousands of new folks. The price of success... There is a side of me that wishes I had been part of this original group, then again I know it was an agonizing wait for the release.. so I am just glad I ran into the demo on 3DFiles this summer. My $.02. ------------------ "Sure, there were a lot of bodies we never identified." - TSgt Donald Haguall '44 In Combat from Normandy to the Ardennes - Charles Whiting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: The community building is also important to us. So that right there makes this BBS valuable. Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Which I also asserted in an earlier thread over a week ago. It isn't so much to "moderate" the thread to keep BB civility in hand, but active participation by BTS with solid rationale & candor on "CM issues" helps let the CM community know where CM is going in the future. But be forewarned....I intend to throw out a CM niggle on bocage here later tonight. So prepare your pre-emptive strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>But be forewarned....I intend to throw out a CM niggle on bocage here later tonight. So prepare your pre-emptive strike. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hehe... I wonder if it involves the two fixes that are in 1.1 IIRC, there was a strange "LOS Hole" having to do with tile alignments that was fixed. But the big one, which should be fixed, is the TacAI's incorrect logic that the Boccage is some sort of cover terrain like Woods. This caused units to "run for the boccage men!!", which didn't yield very positive results in terms of defensive manuevers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: Hehe... I wonder if it involves the two fixes that are in 1.1 IIRC, there was a strange "LOS Hole" having to do with tile alignments that was fixed. But the big one, which should be fixed, is the TacAI's incorrect logic that the Boccage is some sort of cover terrain like Woods. This caused units to "run for the boccage men!!", which didn't yield very positive results in terms of defensive manuevers Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The first bocage tweak you've cited is a new one on me. But the second one is "on-target" to one of my own concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: Hehe... I wonder if it involves the two fixes that are in 1.1 IIRC, there was a strange "LOS Hole" having to do with tile alignments that was fixed. But the big one, which should be fixed, is the TacAI's incorrect logic that the Boccage is some sort of cover terrain like Woods. This caused units to "run for the boccage men!!", which didn't yield very positive results in terms of defensive manuevers Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Excellent! Also.. Steve.. Like Mortars can towed AT guns be considered "ranged in" unless you move them? Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 I for one hope that people will continue to hang around this board for a long time. We all know that the board helps us players by providing answers, ideas, and even opponents. But the board also helps BTS (and, thus, our beloved game) by offering them a pool of opinions and experienced players from which to draw feedback. Being a part of this board means contributing to the future of CM! Martyr (who has lurked on this board every day since about six months before CM was released) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seal7 Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 I've also noticed an unfortunate tendency for any "new" poster who asks a question or even states an opinion being told to "do a search". You need to run a search before you can have an opinion? That and questions being met with "Oh, we beat that subject to death 6 months ago, and aren't you an idiot for not knowing that"..."run a search and dig through 6 months and thousands of BS posts and you'll find the historic and illuminating post so and so posted sometime or the other that'll answer all your questions, and if your opinion is different from his, well then you really are an idiot". So...basically, honest questions or comments about the game are often met with ridicule or pretentious twaddle from the "old timers", while chatting/flame wars are a-okay. Thus you get chatting and flame wars. Just IMO, of course. Dang, I forgot to run a search on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aaronb Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by seal7: You need to run a search before you can have an opinion[...]Dang, I forgot to run a search on that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, you need to run a search before you can have an _informed_ opinion. And this kind of opinion will get you a much better reception. Or did you not do a search on your meta-opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seal7 Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 Example: "Flowers are nice". Posters would need to run a search on flowers and then itemize the reasons they agree/disagree with so and so, and whatzisname in posts # this, and post #that on thread such and such before their opinion gets a "better reception"? Maybe they're trying to state a simple subjective opinion and "join the community", not write a doctoral thesis in defense of it. Perhaps a keyword DB could be made, then people could search it to easily discover what the CM "I was here before the Alpha was even a gleam in the programmers eyes" Old Timer "approved" opinion on any given subject is, and eliminate all this messy interactive posting back and forth foo-foo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kking199: I also sense an unwillingness here to divulge tactics/strategies to military simulation newbies. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is something that I have noticed also. There are some great players in the Peng thread (and outside of it) that never divulge tactics. I assume it's because they feel they will lose their competitive edge. Or maybe, in their humility outside of the Peng thread, they do not consider themselves "expert" enough to be giving advice. I would love to hear how the experts conduct attacks, scouting, ambushes. What type of force mix they purchase in QBs. That kind of stuff is very interesting to me, and I'm sure it is to a great many lurkers and newbies as well. ------------------ My plan is the ultimate in “flexibility,” since I make most of it up as I go along! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Sedai Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jackson: This is something that I have noticed also. There are some great players in the Peng thread (and outside of it) that never divulge tactics. I assume it's because they feel they will lose their competitive edge. Or maybe, in their humility outside of the Peng thread, they do not consider themselves "expert" enough to be giving advice. I would love to hear how the experts conduct attacks, scouting, ambushes. What type of force mix they purchase in QBs. That kind of stuff is very interesting to me, and I'm sure it is to a great many lurkers and newbies as well. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I've found that engaging one or more of the experts in PBEM games teaches me alot. I'm playing 10 people that post in the Peng thread and they share tips with me in the emails. You need only ask. You won't see the strategies in the thread itself because the thread is meant for taunting, not educating. there is my two cents ------------------ Did someone compare this to the Peng thread? I've apologized for less. -Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kitty: As long as people don't allow old age and seriousness to kill their sense of fun and laughing at things just because. Kitty <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hey, Kitty! Who you calling old? Pillar, I'll just reiterate what everyone else has said, most people who contribute here are now regulars and we have a communal spirit going. As such, like any community, I think we all like to not only talk about CM, the future of CM, wargaming in general, etc, but of other topics that may or may not be CM related! Secondly, without any confirmation yet of what CM2 is going to be like, we are somewhat limited in what we can discuss. I think once Steve and Charles start describing their vision for CM2, the topics will return to something that you are probably more interested in! But hey, this board is fun! I enjoy participating in this board, and I enjoy being part of this community! Mace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawBroon Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hiram Sedai: I've found that engaging one or more of the experts in PBEM games teaches me alot. I'm playing 10 people that post in the Peng thread and they share tips with me in the emails. You need only ask. You won't see the strategies in the thread itself because the thread is meant for taunting, not educating. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Waoww. Under the belt. Caught with your hands in the cooky jar. Experts?! Willing to give advice?! Hiram, what you learned is the basic layout of the keyboard and how to attach a file. Now for all of you who are wondering. If we are NOT giving advices away it's because we are not into schooling people. Should they ask they might be answered. We are not a friggin' academy otherwise. Just to illustrate it. Some times ago, CoralSaw asked if he could ride shotgun and do Peeping Tom while some of us play PBEM. We agree to that. If you never ask, you'll never give yourself the chance to be rebuked... ------------------ And NO Bauhaus I didn't say SELF EXPLORATORY. [This message has been edited by PawBroon (edited 11-22-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Sedai Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PawBroon: Waoww. Hiram, what you learned is the basic layout of the keyboard and how to attach a file. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Gee Wally. I can send emails too dontcha know. ------------------ Did someone compare this to the Peng thread? I've apologized for less. -Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jackson: There are some great players in the Peng thread...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Are you huffing white out? Name one. Those guys are a bunch of ninnies! ------------------ "THAT DUCK SHALL NOT HAVE DIED IN VAIN!" - Senachai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdmorse Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 yeah and your what 1-5? oh yeah forgot, as soon as you die alot™ in our game it wil be 1-6 ------------------ If frogs had uzi's, snakes woudn't mess with them so much. - Hiram [This message has been edited by jdmorse (edited 11-22-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 seal7, I've been to this board for a looong time even before I myself was here. your post is a perfect example of why newbies are not always liked: "Flowers are nice" - What a nonsense topic for a CM board. Besides, Example: "Flowers are nice". Posters would need to run a search on flowers and then itemize the reasons they agree/disagree with so and so, and whatzisname in posts # this, and post #that on thread such and such before their opinion gets a "better reception"? this example is a perfect argument FOR the "do a search before you spam the board"-attitude you complain about, BECAUSE such a search would have turned up nada hits which just _might_ have hinted to you that this topic maybe doesn't really belong here. :-p ------------------ "Im off to NZ police collage" (GAZ_NZ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Croda: Are you huffing white out? Name one. Those guys are a bunch of ninnies! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh, does no one ask for your advice, didums? Now, now, Croda, jealousy is a curse! Mace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mace: Oh, does no one ask for your advice, didums? Now, now, Croda, jealousy is a curse! Mace <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> A wise man does not give advice because he knows the wise won't ask for it and the foolish won't follow it. And never call me 'didums!' ------------------ "THAT DUCK SHALL NOT HAVE DIED IN VAIN!" - Senachai [This message has been edited by Croda (edited 11-22-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elementalwarre Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 a few possible reasons offhand: - for students, school's back in session - for software geeks, there's (insert some convention date) waiting for our product to ship. no offense, i'm in this category! - we've all gone catatonic waiting for CM 1.1 - new guys are searching, then asking. hey, it could happen - there are 140k+ messages in 12k+ threads. finding a genuinely new topic's gotten harder - CM's not picking up as many new players since all its killer reviews are not in the latest issue of (insert favorite game mag/site here) i don't mind the first 5 but the last one would be annoying please ship CM 1.1...aside from catatonia my tongue's tired of drooling...by now even dogs are disgusted by it [This message has been edited by elementalwarre (edited 11-22-2000).] [This message has been edited by elementalwarre (edited 11-22-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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