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Explanation of where we are at now...

Guest Big Time Software

By Guest Big Time Software
in Combat Mission Archive #2 (2000)

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Guest Big Time Software

Guest Big Time Software

Posted
Posted

OK, one thing I need to emphasize here is that we still don't know when CM will be released. There are a few things (joke) left on our plates and so far the previous ones have all taken longer than we expected. The fact that we are in the "polishing" stage doesn't mean that a release is necessarily days, or even a few weeks, away. Simple fact is that nobody, not even us, knows when things will be done and done right.

This is one reason why we have been pretty tight lipped on progress and a potential release date recently. We have already got your expectations for an "any day now" release too high and we are trying very hard to not compound that mistake of ours. But we now realize that keeping you in the dark, so to speak, about our progress is also not the right way to do it. So I am going to try a third way, which is to give you guys some updates but try and really downplay how bright the light at the end of the tunnel is until we can smell the train in front of our noses smile.gif

I think one of the problems is that gamers expect the polish stage to go quickly. I don't blame you one bit for thinking that either. Having worked for one of the big boys, and been an avid gamer before there were such things, I have some insights into WHY the final stage of development of your average game goes so quickly.

1. Release Pressure - If the end of the quarter, or x-mass especially, is looming near the game is called "done" whether there was one day or two weeks worth of polish done. A publisher might be able to hold it back for a bit (we at Impressions delayed Lords of the Realm II by almost 2 months!) but there comes a time when it is forced out.

2. Publishers generally force a large degree of polish to be performed all throughout the design process to aid in marketing, often to the detriment of the game system itself. In other words, lots of time spent early on to make the game pretty and game engine stuff left towards the end. Then when #1 above happens the game goes out looking pretty but with serious game problems. Everybody here knows what I am talking about ALL TOO WELL frown.gif

3. Coupled with above, the publishers don't mind redoing artwork over and over again as the game evolves. They move VERY quickly from mockup to full blown completion sometimes before anybody has play tested the darn thing. Then problems are found and a WHOLE lot of work has to be undone and then redone. Sometimes the pressure to release means that the stuff is never fixed, but at the very least it wastes development time and resources.

How does this fit in with CM? Starting with #3... we don't have the money or time to redo things multiple times so, to a large extent, we have been working with mockup interface and graphics all the way up until now. We also still have some quick and dirty things as well as some "must have" features missing. The reason why final stuff isn't in yet is that points #1 and #2 aren't issues for us, so there was no artifical pressure to put looks and chrome before the game itself.

In short, we developed CM the way it *should* be developed from a gamer's standpoint, instead of making it in the way marketing and the publisher in general want. However, this is so different than what everybody is used to that there are some understandable expectations about completion time that simply aren't applicable. Therefore everybody, including ourselves, has to adjust to the differences and understand that we are putting in stuff (CRITICAL STUFF even thought it isn't directly game engine related) that other games would have had in place months ago, regardless of how good or bad the game core is.

Er... I hope this rambling made some sense smile.gif I'll check in throughout today to help answer any questions that come up from this.

Thanks!

Steve

[This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 02-11-2000).]

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DesertFox Senior Member

DesertFox

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the update Steve smile.gif

Much appreciated

Take all the time necessary. Waiting doesn´t matter to me as long things are done right. We all know it´s worth the wait.

Keep up the good work!

regards

Helge

==============

Sbelling chequed wyth MICROSOFT SPELLCHECKER - vorgs grate!

- The DesertFox -

Email: desertfox1891@hotmail.com

WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/2930/

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Ithai Senior Member

Ithai

Posted
Posted

So with the polishing taking longer than usual how is the tcp/ip networking coming? Is it now luped into one fo the must have features or is it still on the back burner. Also a feature I'd love to see way in the future is if you could get together with the author of Game ranger, a mac game matching service, and give him what he needs to write a plugin for the service.

On another note I love the fact that you guys are taking time to do it right. When I heard the first inklings of this game I knew it would be huge. And of course you are making it a game of epic proportions. Thanks for being who you are!

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Guest Big Time Software

Guest Big Time Software

Posted
Posted

Thanks!

As for TCP/IP, that is still on the back burner. We plan on it taking a solid MONTH to get it working, so as of today we aren't working on it.

Game Ranger... we might do something with them after we get TCP/IP started. Dunno what would be required from us, but it is something we are open to looking at. HOWEVER!!! Since CM's networking will be x-platformable Mac gamers won't be limited to playing only other Mac gamers. This means that opponant matching will be almost a non-issue.

Steve

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Guest Ol' Blood & Guts

Guest Ol' Blood & Guts

Posted
Posted

So are you working on things like menu and control interfaces, textures, or sounds (cosmetic features) OR things like AI or what? smile.gif Just curious.. wink.gif

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Guest Ol' Blood & Guts

Guest Ol' Blood & Guts

Posted
Posted

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colin:

But come on!!!

"The beta demo is so……yesterday" That just sounds like your going to release the gold demo.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought it was already established that the Gold Demo will be released after the game is. In this case, a Gold Demo is one for people to download and try out before they buy the game.

At least that is what I understood from a previous thread. confused.gif I hope I'm wrong though. smile.gif

------------------

"I want you to remember that...no bastard ever won a war...by dying for his country...He won it...by making the other poor dumb bastard...die for his country."--George S. Patton

[This message has been edited by Ol' Blood & Guts (edited 02-11-2000).]

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Mark IV Senior Member

Mark IV

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the update- now back to work!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>lots of time spent early on to make the game pretty and game engine stuff left towards the end.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gee, if it wasn't for the word "game"... that's life in all software development, I guess.

The fact is that the polish on CM1 will create the lasting impression that the market gets- thereby guaranteeing that future BTS products will fly off the shelves (err, servers, whatever).

Waiting is so much more bearable when we hear these things. smile.gif

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Colin Senior Member

Colin

Posted
Posted

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ol' Blood & Guts:

I thought it was already established that the Gold Demo will be released after the game is. In this case, a Gold Demo is one for people to download and try out before they buy the game.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I though that the gold demo was gonna come out when the game goes final. That way we have something to play with while we wait for the game to reach our doorsteps.

I'm probably wrong though. smile.gif

------------------

Visit my webpage!

http://cm4mac.tripod.com

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killmore Senior Member

killmore

Posted
Posted

Steve can you please tell us things like:

"Last week we worked 3 days on the manual and for 2 days we worked on 3D firing lines..."

It will give us a feel as to what you guys are doing and how much we/CM can benefit from your current work.

[This message has been edited by killmore (edited 02-11-2000).]

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Guest Big Time Software

Guest Big Time Software

Posted
Posted

Gold Demo will be released when we send the final off to the replicators. This means you will get to look at the Gold Demo 2-4 weeks prior to getting your hands on preodered copies. This gives you a chance to cancel if you so wish. We will then patch the demo (hopefully) or upload a new one once TCP/IP has been fully done. Dunno when that will be, but it will be after people are playing the real thing.

We have not been working on things like the AI. User interface has been the primary thing worked on, along with certain graphical improvements. Sometimes these have overlapped smile.gif More models and textures are going in every day as well, and finally the end of the list is getting near! We are also still shaking out some bugs, like aircraft going after Forward Observers and such biggrin.gif The manual is also taking up lots and lots of time.

As for counting days spent on each, we haven't a clue. Our philosophy all along has been one of "time is better spent doing the work instead of accounting for it". Again, another benefit of not being with a Publisher. You have no idea how much time I spent as a Producer at Sierra doing just that. What a headache wink.gif

Steve

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Colin Senior Member

Colin

Posted
Posted

Just a quick question about the demo?

How much time does it take to make a demo from the final code? I mean you have to criple it in some way and obviously remove somethings. Just wondering how long this takes? I'm not asking how much longer it will take. Just how long it takes to build a demo from a larger body of code. I have absolutly so experience in this field so I'm just curious.

Colin out and beating the AI mercifully in CE as Germans

------------------

Visit my webpage!

http://cm4mac.tripod.com

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Guest Seimerst

Guest Seimerst

Posted
Posted

Steve-- thanks for the info. We know that that the only people that want the game to be done worse than us is your BTS team. But we have to be like Sepp Dietrich waiting for those Tigers in the 101st Heavy Pnz Co to arrive for the Normandy Campaign, they will get here when they get here. At least you don't have Typhoon's rocketing you on the way to work. Take your time and we will hold our positions.

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der Bob Junior Member

der Bob

Posted
Posted

Gentlemen:

I have been playing war games since I got Afrika Korps at the tender age of 12 in 1964. Added responsibilities over the years (wife, 3 children, etc.) make it difficult to spend much time on them anymore, but ever since I was "turned on to" CM (on the Panzer Elite forum, of all places!), I believe I'll have to sacrifice something (probably sleep) to play this game. I have never seen anything like it. I bought my first computer (an Atari 800) solely for the purpose of playing East Front 1941; mercifully, it appears CM is fully playable on my 266 AMD and Voodoo3. I am exceedingly anxious for the "real" version of the game, but of course encourage BTS to do what is necessary to ensure that the full version meets your customers' lofty expectations.

I am simply astounded by the graphics and the sheer esthetic and functional beauty of the game.

I have only one question about timing of release--will it definitely NOT be within the next month or two? If not, I prefer to stop thinking about it every day!

Thanks for all your work on our behalf. I believe you have created (or, rather, are creating) the finest war game ever conceived. Your "pre-market hype" is NOT exaggeration!

Regards,

der Bob

------------------

"We ain't got no booze"

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Dave Member

Dave

Posted
Posted

I don't think Colin was asking about how long it would take to make a new demo, like the beta demo. I think he was asking how long it would take to make the GOLD demo after CM is actually finished. Is it just a matter of removing some lines of code?

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