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Can tanks throw a track without being hit?

General_Petrovsky
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General_Petrovsky Member

General_Petrovsky

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In a PBEM game I had a German stug advancing slowly (Hunt Mode) through open terrain in the snow, first it got bogged in and then I heard a noise and it got immobilized. It's not near the enemy yet so it wasn't being shot at or anything. No arty is falling near it. My first guess was that maybe it was Anti-Tank Mines, but that would be impossible because this is a meeting engagement and this happened on my side of the VL so it's out of my opponents set up zone. It's been a few turns now and my stug is permanately immoblized. Did it throw a track trying to unbog itself? Has anyone seen this before? Does it just happen in snow or can it happen anytime a vehicle has become bogged? Come to think about a similar thing like this happened to me in another game where I had a German armored car (wheeled) become immobilized after being bogged, did he get a flat tire? This incident happen in dry grass too, not snow. I thank you in advance for your thoughts.

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Kingfish Senior Member

Kingfish

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In a recent PBEM game against John Kettler I reversed a Firefly and he threw a track. The ground conditions were dry, clear weather, and no incoming fire. I was then forced to spend the remaining 5-7 turns "bluffing" his Panther into thinking the 'fly was still operational. Talk about sweating every turn!

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...This is Romeo-Foxtrot, shall we dance?...

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Snake Eyes Senior Member

Snake Eyes

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maj. Bosco:

...As for bogging in the open on a dry and sunny day, that is just extremely bad luck. I've never seen it happen.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have. A Panther G, in HUNT mode on a road, became immobilized. Just bad luck. But it's very realistic to have these events occur at the CM scale.

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It is easy to be brave from a safe distance. -Aesop

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Stefan Fredriksson Senior Member

Stefan Fredriksson

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So far I've been lucky, either the vehicles have come unstuck after being bogged in, or they have been immobilized well before action. So due to my limited experience:

- If a tank is immobilized (on a road for instance), can it still turn? In real life with one track left, you'd still be able to spin it around. If nothing else to face it the right direction.

- Same question, but if bogged in - can it turn?

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Samhain Senior Member

Samhain

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It's certainly a realistic phenomenon, afaik. Tigers often threw tracks when they ran up over the drive sprockets. (And they often suffered transmission failures, and in winter, ice would jam the interleaved road wheels.) Great tank when it worked, though smile.gif

(Info from Roger Ford's excellent book, The Tiger Tank, Motorbooks International, 1998.)

[This message has been edited by Samhain (edited 11-06-2000).]

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Randy Mauldin Member

Randy Mauldin

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I have had tanks bogged and then become immobilized in open ground that was "wet". It seems to happen in low lying areas, less so in the higher elevations. If the ground conditions are "Deep Mud" however you can bog and become immobilized anywhere, even on unpaved roads. I had a tank become immobilized one time as it went through a bocage. It was in the middle of a bocage field with bocage all around it. He couldn't see a thing and was totally useless after that.

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It wasn't MY company..It was the Armys' or so they told me.

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Juardis Senior Member

Juardis

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I've had it happen twice. Once in snow with a pershing and he unbogged himself. Once in scattered trees with damp conditions in my Stug III, he eventually became immobilized. Fortunately for me he still had a decent los of targets so he took some opfor down with him.

What I don't understand is when you become immobilized why you cannot still rotate the turret. I understand why with turretless vehicles and I can understand why if the engine is hit, but I cannot with turretted vehicles that just lose a track. Even if done slowly by hand the turret should still be able to rotate, engine hit or no. Anybody see the turret rotate when immobilised?

And General, here's hoping you throw multiple tracks on the road to St. Lo. wink.gif

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Jeff Abbott

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Maximus Senior Member

Maximus

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stefan Fredriksson:

So far I've been lucky, either the vehicles have come unstuck after being bogged in, or they have been immobilized well before action. So due to my limited experience:

- If a tank is immobilized (on a road for instance), can it still turn? In real life with one track left, you'd still be able to spin it around. If nothing else to face it the right direction.

- Same question, but if bogged in - can it turn?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, once a vehicle is immobilized it can not turn. This is something that is just a feature of CM. Yes, it would still be possible to turn a little bit with one track, but in CM's scale this is not feasible.

Even if a vehicle is bogged, it can't turn either. Think about it, if a vehicle is stuck, it couldn't turn. If it could, it wouldn't be stuck, now would it?

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"Rule#3: You must be a member of my Meta Campaign to take

part.(doh!)" - Rob/1

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Maximus Senior Member

Maximus

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juardis:

What I don't understand is when you become immobilized why you cannot still rotate the turret. I understand why with turretless vehicles and I can understand why if the engine is hit, but I cannot with turretted vehicles that just lose a track. Even if done slowly by hand the turret should still be able to rotate, engine hit or no. Anybody see the turret rotate when immobilised?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why sure, I have had several immobilized tanks still using their turrets with no restrictions. If the tank will not turn its tureet, it may be due to having "gun damage" of which sometimes, the turret will not turn.`

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Kingfish Senior Member

Kingfish

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juardis:

Anybody see the turret rotate when immobilised?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, as far back as the beta days. I remember playing CE and a Sherman that became immobilized 5 seconds into turn one went ahead and bagged 3 Stugs.

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...This is Romeo-Foxtrot, shall we dance?...

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Guest Germanboy

Guest Germanboy

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juardis:

Anybody see the turret rotate when immobilised?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am sure I did, in a game against Peter_Sheepshagger. His Panther got bogged and still proceeded to waste both my Sherman 76. They stood apart, so he must have turned the turret. Also, turret turning is not dependent on having an engine, because they have a manual crank. (It would of course help if the guy operating it is a strappy, muscular, mustachioed lad, fit to appear in Ethan's Grogporn.)

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Andreas

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/greg_mudry/sturm.html">Der Kessel</a >

Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission.

[This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 11-06-2000).]

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Guest Pillar

Guest Pillar

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Andreas!!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>(It would of course help if the guy operating it is a strappy, muscular, mustachioed lad, fit to appear in Ethan's Grogporn.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LMAO!!!

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Wittmann Senior Member

Wittmann

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The tiger was particularly prone to throwing a track when performing a neutral turn as mud and debris would accumulate in the tracks.

Crews training would attempt to compensate for the slow turret by turning the hull to assist gun laying, but in combat the risk of throwing a track made this very risky.

Replacing a track is a job which takes a minimum of an hour in good conditions so couldn't be achieved in an 'average' CM battle. Under fire the job would be suicidal , so the choice is stay and fight, or do a Bravely Bold Sir Robin....

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Stefan Fredriksson Senior Member

Stefan Fredriksson

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maximus:

No, once a vehicle is immobilized it can not turn. This is something that is just a feature of CM. Yes, it would still be possible to turn a little bit with one track, but in CM's scale this is not feasible.

Even if a vehicle is bogged, it can't turn either. Think about it, if a vehicle is stuck, it couldn't turn. If it could, it wouldn't be stuck, now would it?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1: Ok, thanks.

2: Of course! My brain farted that one out before I realized what was happening...

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aka_Deadline Senior Member

aka_Deadline

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I am currently playing a game in which

8 out of my 15 Shermans 76 (W) Tanks became

immobilized in the snow while advancing in

open county to battle against 5 panther

tanks that where moving along a road way.

I had perfect cover as there was a small hill that my tanks just had to crest over

and I would have had 5 burning panther tanks

to add to my kill tally.

But conditions changed very rapidly after

my tanks became immobilized, such is the

misfortunes of war.

Deadline

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"My honor is Life both grow as one, take honor

from me and my life is done."

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aka_tom_w Senior Member

aka_tom_w

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stuka:

It hasn't happened to me but an opponent in a recent pbem reported that his tiger became immobilised with the report of 'mechanical failure'

Anyone else seen this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

interesting?

I have never seen "mechanical failure" come up as a report or warning

I play the Allies mostly and I have never seen it

if I play the Germans I have not had a Tiger 1 recently I think the last time I had a Tiger 1e was that demo Last Defence.

Anyone else ever seen a "mechanical failure" report for a vehicle? On which vehicle and in what weather conditions?

I'm curious now smile.gif

thanks

-tom w

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pzvg Senior Member

pzvg

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One thing to consider is the meaning of "immobilized" Did it throw a track? or did the driver burn up the engine trying to unbog it? I was in armored recovery in the army, and I've seen many cases of both, sometimes at the same time. FYI it is easier than most people realize to throw a track, and wether you can pivot afterwards depends on conditions, a tank that throws a track on level dry grass might still dig the bogies on that side in, effectively anchoring it

(note; it's a PIA to recover when that happens too)

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Pzvg

"Confucious say, it is better to remain silent, and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt"

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Guest Germanboy

Guest Germanboy

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

interesting?

I have never seen "mechanical failure" come up as a report or warning<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's another good one. In a PBEM I just broke off, my opponent had a Stuart that was shocked but had no crew casualty. I guess they were just shocked that they were trying to go up against two Panther's with no cover... But I had not seen that before.

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Andreas

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/greg_mudry/sturm.html">Der Kessel</a >

Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission.

[This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 11-09-2000).]

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Stuka Senior Member

Stuka

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It was a clear day, dry conditions.

He was giving me a bit of a hammering when he decided to move the Tiger forwards, I had no defenses against it in the area and I thought, "well thats it then", suddenly the Tiger just stops and the opponent says it has a 'mechanical failure', I was'nt shooting at it and it shouldn't have got bogged so I can only take him at his word.

It would be nice to get an official word on this one.....

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