RMC Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 CM doesn't need to be modded like the FPS games do. Like Madmatt pointed out who replays Quake missions? Once the single player aspect of FPS games are "beaten" players turn to multiplayer. The standard deathmatching is so one-dimensional that these games scream for modding. MP is where all the mod activity is. There are a few folks making levels/maps/new missions for these games to make the SP experience fresh again but they are overshadowed by the vast variety of multiplayer mods. Besides all of the graphic "mods" people have already modded the CM multiplayer experience by building the CM meta campaign thingy. CM doesn't have a campaign mode so they made one. Bing. No coding was required, but it appears to involve the same level of work. Another point about the mods are the function they have in the industry. They seem to have developed into a sort of bush league for the big developers. Make a mod, show your skillz and land a job. Team Fortress comes immediately to mind. TFS guys made Team Fortress for Quake. Now those guys work for Valve and have made TFC using the HL engine and are making Team Fortress 2. There is a crew making a total conversion for HL that got noticed and Gunman was going to be an expansion pack but it was impressive enough that it will now be a full game. BTW, does anyone else think Madmatt's "we" speak is really cute? Sounds like somebody's wife.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by argie: Yes. I'm glad you like the city Ariel <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Total OT: I visited BA for a week back in late Oct, 1995. Business nature. Great place. Great steak! (I still remember that grilled steak of 2 inches thick -- yummy!) And I was really treated well by a very nice Italian resturant. Great pasta. It is run by people from New York, I think. I wonder if it is still there. Oh, I make myself hungry again. Griffin. ------------------ "+" is just the beginning. Expect to see "GriffinCheng76", "GriffinCheng(105)" or "GriffinChengA3E8" more should Forum problems occur again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 They don't like North American's tho.. and definately don't call yourself 'american' (since, strictly speaking, they are 'american' too, you're from the USA ) However, if you can try some Spanish, they like that a lot PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAZZA Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 Boo to man united and chelsea go you gunners! sorry, off topic i know,but i couldn't help myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 oops, mispost, move along, move along PeterNZ [This message has been edited by PeterNZer (edited 10-19-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 Good god, would you BA people get a room or go to AOL or, here's a strange idea, not post on this topic?!?! Is this the only place you can find people to talk to? ------------------ Did someone compare this to the Ealing comedies? I've shot people for less. -David Edelstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 Got something against Bs As? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PeterNZer: Got something against Bs As? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No but I do have a serious problem with your insistence on making off topic posts. It is rude. Please keep your personal life personal and if you want to discuss Buenos Ares, your PBEM battles, your Counterstrike proficiency or any other rambling thought in your head, do it elsewhere. There is a reason these threads have topics and this one's topic is not, "Gee PeterNZer, what's on your mind?" ------------------ Did someone compare this to the Ealing comedies? I've shot people for less. -David Edelstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Please keep your personal life personal and if you want to discuss Buenos Ares, your PBEM battles, your Counterstrike proficiency or any other rambling thought in your head, do it elsewhere.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Just no one wants to chat with you, "Elijah Meeks". Chill out, be civil everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 [This message has been edited by M. Bates (edited 10-19-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 It's a dumb thread, rapidly ending, if i want to discuss my travels with others and you don't like it you have two choices 1) feck off 2). i lied, you have only one choice. PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarcastro Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 Buenos Ares people don't like ALL North Americans? Even us Canadians? Gee, that's sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 They probably like Canadians, aren't they so adorable? it's more like how the english and the french don't like each other.. don't freak out man PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 We like Canadians Ariel p.s. Is Buenos Aires [This message has been edited by argie (edited 10-19-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 It's ok Elijah, We have lost control of this one anyway. Let them have their fun. Besides, I am a little curious about BA anyway. I hear the night clubs there rock! Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 Elijah Meeks wrote: > There is a reason these threads have topics and this one's topic is not, "Gee PeterNZer, what's on your mind?" LOL ------------------ Guderian's anger was monumental. He struggled for words. "To say that the troops are to blame – look at the casualties!" he raged. "Look at the losses! The troops did their duty! Their self-sacrifice proves it!" Hitler yelled back. "They failed!" he raged. "They failed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 Stop worrying about modifications and incompatibilities. CM should allow only units that have exactly same gun/armour/rof etc to be available in multiplayer. Simple! So is someone super charges his sherman or stug he will not be able to use it in multiplayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banshee Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 Just throwing my .02 in. A) CM is not a game engine, it was never designed as a game engine. It would requires a complete rewrite (starting from scratch) to make it into one. There are no API's for it. The only outside 'data' it grabs are sound and textures (and very minor data from the preferences file). Just look at the size of exe, it is obvious the data is compiled in. With all the above being true, no way CM can (or ever will) become a mod-able game in the true sense. The arguments against mods are the silliest I've ever seen. In my experience mods follow a very definitive life cycle and the cream rises to the top, with the silly / ill conceived ones falling away. Game engines usually have the caveat of only being able to play against an opponent with the exact same mods as you. So stupid things like a KT going against an M8 with 125mm armor ( ) would never happen (come on is the best argument you could come up with??). Fact is mods make a game better. Fact is people are still playing Quake ,heck I know 4 guys still playing doom2 with the westwad mod (BECAUSE of the mods , not in spite of them). Fact is CM will never be mod-able. It's a design decision that BTS has made, and I do not fault them. But mods DO make a game better, I can't see how people argue against them. But again this has nothing to do with BTS since they have chosen long ago for this not to happen. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 Banshee wrote: > But mods DO make a game better, I can't see how people argue against them. It depends on the kind of game – that's the argument. There's no doubt that mods do a lot for games like Doom and Quake, but those are no comparison to CM. David ------------------ Guderian's anger was monumental. He struggled for words. "To say that the troops are to blame – look at the casualties!" he raged. "Look at the losses! The troops did their duty! Their self-sacrifice proves it!" Hitler yelled back. "They failed!" he raged. "They failed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken: It depends on the kind of game – that's the argument. There's no doubt that mods do a lot for games like Doom and Quake, but those are no comparison to CM. David <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> David, these games have followed their own development cycle and push toward realism, just as CM has. For example, Quake 3 has an incredibly realistic physics engine. The reason these games have such outlandish weapons is because it best demonstrates the extremely developed simulation of real world environments. To discount these because you don't like them is a bit hasty. ------------------ Did someone compare this to the Ealing comedies? I've shot people for less. -David Edelstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorilla Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 Thought this was an interesting thread, so's here's my thoughts: I think it's true (although I haven't seen the source code) that it's impossible to make a mod for CM right now, or make it mod-able. I Don't think mods would improve the game as it is now at all. I do, however, think that mods have a value in a game like this. As a mod, we aren't talking about changing CM, but adding to it. The half-life example is the same I will use here: There have been/are many many mods for half-life, but only a few have survived, or are any good. The rest suck, and nobody plays them. Mods are not cross-mod-able ie: you can't play a CS game on a Team Fortress server. I think that this is what people are talking about when they talk about a CM mod. I think it would be fun to make a modern day mod. Some Abrams and T-80's goin at it would be neat... to me. If it sucked tho, I wouldn't play it, and if you didn't like it, you wouldn't play it. It all boils down to personal preferences... mods (if done right) are there to meet our own personal preferences. I think that would be neat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 Elijah Meeks wrote: > The reason these games have such outlandish weapons is because it best demonstrates the extremely developed simulation of real world environments. What is the purpose of Quake? Run around and shoot things. What is the purpose of CM? To accurately simulate Second World War combat, command structures, weapons and vehicles, and the behaviour of men under fire. Without modifications, games like Quake would quickly bore people and be forgotten, because they have little substance. Oh gosh, a realistic physical environment – got one of those already, it's called reality. Big guns and big explosions are only amusing for so long, but accurately simulated real-world military technology and battlefield behaviour is a subject of almost infinite depth. You can't argue that modifications would be good for CM because they're good for Quake. David ------------------ Guderian's anger was monumental. He struggled for words. "To say that the troops are to blame – look at the casualties!" he raged. "Look at the losses! The troops did their duty! Their self-sacrifice proves it!" Hitler yelled back. "They failed!" he raged. "They failed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted October 20, 2000 Share Posted October 20, 2000 Wait a minute. Wait a god darn minute. I have literally had enough of this. CM will not, should not, and just plain won't be turned into a quake mod like game. The end. I have sat through this argument the whole way through many a times holding my breath. I am now sick of it. I cant take this whole lets make CM modable crap. Its just freakin crap. The game was thought out well before any of you people had come on here saying make CM modible or quakish. I am just so tired of people saying that it would be a better game if it was moded. This is ridiculous. I really dont think you people fully understand what this game is about if you just want to open it up and let people tinker with it. and It makes me sick. I do not want to see thousands of "user" mods out there. It will only make it harder for everyone in this community to stick together. hundreds or thousands of user mods will make this entire community so insanely out of touch. The community will be fragmented. This not a shoot-em type game(fps). This game is really what goes on behind the graphics. The graphics are mearly a representation of what goes on underneath the hood. There is too much at stake for users to just freely create tanks, mods, weapons, vehicles, infantry, helicopters, jeeps, bazookas, ammo, granades, panzerfuosts...and so on. For the sake of realism alone CM should be and will most likely be left the way it is (amen). Of course I still would like to see a factory building on a map. But thats is a different story my friends. I just dont buy into this hole mod out CM. Statements like these: "you will dominate the market" "you will breakthrough the video game industry" "You will sell more of CM" Accckk. BTW, just a thought on "the community". The CM community is by far the most mature, respectful, organized and thoughtful community I have been involved with. CM players are generally nice people. I cant say that about other online communties where flame wars are abundent. my $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banshee Posted October 20, 2000 Share Posted October 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken: It depends on the kind of game – that's the argument. There's no doubt that mods do a lot for games like Doom and Quake, but those are no comparison to CM. David <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It DOESN'T matter the type of game, mods will always make it better, always. The reason I brought up Quake was because from a programming point of view it a marvelous piece of code. Completely modifiable in every detail, you can write script files for the AI (imagine being able to modify AI in CM!) and change any and every detail. The people who play CM are (by in large) a hardcore group of wargamers who enjoy realism, any new mods made would reflect that, and as I said before, the cream rises to the top. Good mods will be installed and gushed over, bad mods will fall quickly to the wayside. Software is software, game or not, a highly customizable software is better than non-customizable. The only time you see different is when the presentation of the customization is done in a bad way. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banshee Posted October 20, 2000 Share Posted October 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freak: The game was thought out well before any of you people had come on here saying make CM modible or quakish. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Modable yes, Quakish no. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>There is too much at stake for users to just freely create tanks, mods, weapons, vehicles, infantry, helicopters, jeeps, bazookas, ammo, granades, panzerfuosts...and so on. For the sake of realism alone CM should be and will most likely be left the way it is (amen). Of course I still would like to see a factory building on a map. But thats is a different story my friends. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Because the CM community is so tight I think you would see the best mods of all! Realism is a priority for all of us. Just having something modable doesnt mean it will make it unrealistic (this seems to be the crux of the counter argument). I am saying the "good" (realistic) mods would be the ones people use and the "bad" (unrealistic) mods would be quickly erased. CM could only get better. For example, if you imagine a "modable" CM world. Right now we would have every tank for any nation available to us. All different types of terrain (desert, jungle). We could simulate ANY battle we wanted from WW2. If we were in a CM modable world you would have your factory building, because you would want to make a damn good one and would want to share it with others. The discussion is moot because CM is not a game engine. But the game WOULD be better if it was.. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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