U.S. Army Reserve: Should I go in?

[Berlichtingen]

Capt.M

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>2. Although some jokes have been made about it, you really do develop a deep sense of cameraderie and long term (often lifelong) friendships.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think Marty undersold this point. I doubt there is anyone who can explain this in a way that you will understand unless you experience it, but I'll give it a try.

I'm married, and love my wife dearly, however, I doubt we will ever be as close as some of the friendships I formed in the service. There is a special bond in friendships formed in adversity.

Another point I should make... When I was in, I couldn't wait to get out, but if I could go back and change my decision to enlist in the Corps, I wouldn't. It was the best learning experience of my life and as noticably contributed to my success after getting out.

PS... How far are you from DC? If you are close enough, check out the drill team at the Marine Barracks... you'll probably enlist the same day

[thomasj]

Everything that I would really say has alrady been said. The one BIG thing though is your MOS selection, if you go in make sure you get a technical MOS, 74B is the one for systems administration and that has the highest rate of civilian hires into the IT world after time is served. Just got out last year after 9 years of service and three major deployments. If you go, completely leave home and try to get stationed in Germany or Korea so you can see the world, living in those areas for 2 to 3 years wwould really help you see the world in a new light. If you go to Germany you will likely deploy to Bosnia SFOR mission or Kosavo for the KFOR mission, Korea you probably won't be deployed.

Just FYI information, Best go active and see the world verses part time.

[Supertanker]

If you are thinking about money at all, I'll vote for the "no military" option. Go to college first. If the economy stays good, and you don't have your head jammed completely into your rectum, you can walk into a good job. If the economy tanks, then you can still join up, and you have your degree under your belt.

I have one friend that waited until he was done with law school, then joined the Air Force JAG. I don't think he had to do any real boot camp, just a couple weeks of school to learn to military protocols. He believes this is because they know you are unlikely to tolerate much crap at that point in life, and they don't want you to quit. There may have been professional training about the UCMJ, but that's about it.

As far as what the military/college teaches you, I believe people grow up in different ways in different places, but the successful ones all learn something that pushes them. College teaches you discipline by dropping you into a protected atmosphere of near total freedom. It is easy to spend all of your time drinking beer and hanging out with girls, but you will flunk out if you do that. I had to learn to discipline myself at the university, but in a parallel universe, I could have had that jammed into my head by a drill instructor.

Finally, I agree that you shouldn't get too impressed by the ASVAB. My high school made us take the ASVAB, and most anybody in honors classes got straight 99s.

[von Lucke]

You're talking about joining the Reserves, right? Lot of good info been laid out here, but most of it is more relevant to going Active.

The big thing with joining a Reserve unit, is knowing what the wartime mission (medical, supply, admin, combat) of said unit will be. Reserve units are specific to particular areas, so it's not like you get your choice of every MOS available: What the local Unit is tasked for will determine what jobs are available.

Many Reserve members sign up for Split-Option training, ie; go to Basic, come home for awhile, do some Drill, then head off to your Occupational Specialty school later (almost a year later, in some cases) --- meanwhile you'll spend a lot of Drill time wondering what the hell you're supposed to be doing... But at least it's only one weekend a month.

The Reserves have a GI Bill equivalent to the Regulars, and you can usually tap into it while you serve, so if you're joining up to finance college, it can work out for you. If you intend to join up for the experience, see the above paragraph. If you want to travel to foreign climes, meet exotic and culturally diverse peoples and then exterminate them, go Active.

von Lucke: 15 yrs Active Army (early retirement)--- 2 months in the National Guard (what a rat cluster-****!).

[This message has been edited by von Lucke (edited 06-15-2000).]

[RMC]

Lots of good stuff said already. The only thing I would add is that look carefully at the skills available in the USAR. The reserves consist of units that fall into Combat Support and Combat Service Support like MPs, Quartermaster, Transportation etc. If you want to play combat arms you'll need to go National Guard. Of course, active duty has all of them.

[KiloIndiaAlpha]

Join THE Legion. I'll guarantee you will be shot at.

...In combat : you will act without relish of your tasks, or hatred ; you will respect the vanquished enemy and will never abandon neither your wounded nor your dead, nor will you under any circumstances surrender your arms.

http://www.info-france-usa.org/america/embassy/legion/legion.htm

Mike

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Dulce Et Decorum Est

[Screaming Demon]

Join the real army.

[NCrawler]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eosmund:

Aaahh Fort Gordon, GA. I did my AIT there at the time I was a 31K (wiredog) now it's 31U. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey bro, when were you at Gordon for 31K school? I was there in 88...

[Mark IV]

Captain:

I support the general line of yes, do it, but go active not reserve, and do not believe much of what a recruiter tells you.

I joined the Army to see Europe and shoot large guns. Did more of the former, but I have never regretted it (well, there were one or two little things...).

Army or Marines, if there was the remotest chance you would ever stay in, you would go a lot further with a combat MOS. Avoid the Engineers- it is exactly like real work, and you shovel all the elephant s**t at the circus. Some of my best friends were Engineers but I never wanted to be one.

If you have some other plan in life, you might want to avoid the reserves altogether. If at your age you do not have another plan, I say go active. Get all promises in writing. Sign up for Europe.

Armed Forces Network does have radio and TV spots, BTW, but I wouldn't count on getting one. And when the balloon goes up, as they say, you're all infantry.

[This message has been edited by Mark IV (edited 06-15-2000).]

[buddy]

I second what Bullethead & Schrullenhaft have said. I spent 7 years on Active Reserve, was pulled out of college and went to the Gulf thing. Overall the Reserve experience was a good one. Remember, no matter what anyone tells you, you sign up for 8 years minimum (it can be 6 active, 2 inactive or several other combinations - I extended one year - will always be 8 years, though). Got out in 1993 because I was tired of the crap you have to put up with and I strongly disagree with the current administration - who, by the way, has increased the likelihood of you being deployed as a policeman to some 3rd world ****hole every other month because he has cut our current military to shreds - lower than before WW2. Consider it all before you sign the dotted lines...

[Los]

If you are considering doing a part time military stint then I would strongly sugest you look into the Guard instead of the reserves. They have a bit more money for training than does the reserves and more importantly, almost all states (YMMV) have superior tuition benefits over the reserves to the tune of going to any state university or school tuition free so it's a good deal if you need some financial help to get through college but don't want to graduate owing somebody tens of thousands of dollars. (Plus some MOSs i.e. infantry have sign on bonuses.)

As for learning a skill, well whatever. If I wanted to learn how to be a mechanic or truck driver then I'd do it as a civilian where you don't have to deal with pointless chicken****. However going into combat arms is another story, the chicken**** has some point to it then and the weekend are a bit more interesting. ALso if you want to know what your little virtual guys are experiencing in CM when you double time them a half mile in a few minutes well you'll get a little insight finally. Again your milage may vary depending on unit and state. What state are you in?

Los

P.s. Oh yeah and you'll also be doing at least a little something for society. Do you live in a state with lots of disasters?

[Zamo]

Combat arms...the only answer. What ever choice you make, be at the front of the spear.

To paraphrase G.S.Patton Jr.:

"...You won't have to tell your grandson you shovelled **** in Louisianna"

Zamo

Oh to be young again and do it all over!!!

[bauhaus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

He told me all the benefits of the US Army could offer. I took a practice Military aptitude test, and got a very high score on my first try. They said I'd be perfect for them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! Oh man, I'm dyin' here! Sorry, Capt, but recruiters have been saying that since God created the Corps (there was no formal military prior to the USMC).

Berli, didn't you fall for the same line?

[Hakko Ichiu]

Even despite both the questioner and the respondent, this is a serious thread and deserves a serious answer. In this post, I'm going to assume, w/o evidence one way or the other, that you are reasonably intelligent (hey, you play CM), in reasonable health, and possessed of a moral compass that points no more than a few degrees off True North.

I have no military experience, so I'm going to cut to the chase here and talk about how the business world views veterans. The overall answer is very positively, especially in fields that require specific skills that others have discussed. Officers with good leadership experience are especially sought after in certain branches of the corporate world.

Beyond that, however, if you go through active duty training as a grunt and come out the other end with an honorable discharge (an officer's commission is nice too) and then go to college, I think you set yourself up for success in the future. I've seen guys who've done ROTC, and compared to the guys who'd come out after a full hitch, they lacked discipline (still way above the average college student including yours truly). For better or worse, self-discipline is a critical success factor in the business world (and lots of other worlds) and there are few places that teach it to today's young persons. The military is one of them.

For reasons that others more knowledgeable than I have touched upon, I'm going to suggest you consider the USMC. Of all the service people that I have dealt with, the Jarheads have impressed me most -- I say this with no disrespect intended to those from other branches.

I have another reason for recommending the Marine Corps, and you will have to decide whether it has any meaning for you. A friend of mine in high school came from a wealthy Manhattan family and was spoiled and worldly in a way that only a fifteen year old from upper-class New York can be. He was a very smart guy as well, but over the next couple of years he went on a rapid downhill slide of booze and drugs. Finally, shortly before graduation, he was expelled for plagiarism.

At a loss for what to do, and, I think, recognizing that he needed to straighten himself out, he joined the Marines as a grunt. At the end of his hitch, he was a changed man. He mustered out, got a degree from NYU, went into real estate, and now makes more money than he can spend.

When I ran into him in New York, nine years after he got expelled, he said that the Corps not only gave him the discipline he needed to succeed, it probably saved his life. Taught him how to put a good shine on his shoes too.

Whatever decision you make, I hope it's the right one for you.

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Ethan

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Das also war des Pudels Kern! -- Goethe

[This message has been edited by Hakko Ichiu (edited 06-15-2000).]

[Thomas Norton]

Capt. before you decide, go down to the book store and pick up a book call "Making the Corps". It will give you the insight you are looking for.

It has been a very long time since I stood at the same cross roads you do now. If you can afford collage, the Marine Corp has a program called PLC. Look into it. You will not regret it.

Good luck.

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"The Legitimate object of war is a more perfect peace."

[Lurker]

Capt,

It appears that most of the folks who have responded so far are suggesting active duty versus the reserves. I don't have personal experience with the reserves, but my squadron had several attached reservists assigned at one time or another.

The general feeling that I got from them was that their reserve duty had all of the B.S. associated with military duty, but little or none of the job satisfaction. Of course, The B.S. was part time, so it wasn't too bad. But in general, most of the people seemed to be rather frustrated with the reserves.

Good Luck.

-Lurker

[Bullethead]

I think that as a public service, somebody should save this thread and post it up somewhere for all kids to see. My GAWD, I wish I'd had access this quantity and quality of info before I'd signed away 8 years of blood, sweat, and tears. Being young, I'd have no doubt signed up anyway, but I'd have gone in with my eyes more fully open.

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-Bullethead

It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark.

-Flashman

[EScurlock]

The best and worst people I ever met were in the Army. I could tell you stories. Some I'd trust with my life, others you couldn't turn your back on for a second (Not an exageration).

I wouldn't sign a military contract unless I was sure I wanted a military carreer, and I definately wouldn't join the Army unless it was as a commisioned officer. I've been in the military 17 years and my biggest regret is not getting my college education when I was young. If it's the only way you can pay for college, or you have a wild hair and need some discipline, go ahaid and join the reserves; otherwise, get that college degree. The military will still be there when you graduate.

Just My 2 Cents

Eric

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He who gets there the fastest with the mostest wins.

[Trooper]

Little or no job satisfaction in the reserves? Talk about going in with the wrong philosophy...

I'm in a bit of an odd situation. I spent a few years in the Irish military reserves. This is a volunteer force. Literally. We turn up for a weekend, we don't get paid. (Oh, they usually fed us all right, but we don't get a check!) We turn up for training on Thursday nights, do we get paid? Not a bit of it. The only time we got -money- was on one of occasional camps which lasted a minimum of a week. (Or if we were working active, such as on the border) And frankly, the pay of a 3-Star trooper (PFC equivalent) is little enough that I was losing money there too, for I was having to take it out of my vacation time from work. (No legal requirements on employer to hold job position open or anything)

We were there because we wanted to be there, and enjoyed being there. Personally, it also gave me a sense of satisfaction for serving the community. There was -nobody- in my entire unit of 80 some men who was unhappy with the squadron. It's what you make of it.

I am now in the US. I am looking to get into C Coy, 1-149 Armor CA Army National Guard. (Abrams!). I've gone down and visited them, and started the application process. I sure as hell am not doing it for the money. I work as an IT consultant, and as near as I can figure out, the entire monthly pay as a PV2 or PFC or whatever the heck rank I'll be in boot camp (4-year degree amongst other things, which in itself is a silly idea if you ask me, but I digress) isn't going to as much as cover my monthly rent. Let alone my car payment. And anything else.

My problem, and the one thing that concerns me, is that whilst all the brochures and advertising and so on touts the US's Citizen Soldier tradition, it's not very accomodating to the Citizen part of it. I need to take a half-day off work just to take the bloody AVSAB. I need to take 2 months off work for boot camp. Then there's AIT. This is not conducive to my civilian life. I held the rank of 'recruit' for 8 months in Ireland, training at times that suited the fact that I have a civilian life too.

Now once I get all the crap out of the way, then I can settle down to a fulfilling part-time career having fun learning to tank and providing some service to the community (Disasters and so on). But the barriers that the Guard have to my getting in in the first place are huge. Now just as long as I can wear my paratrooper's wings....

DWH

Manic Moran

[This message has been edited by Trooper (edited 06-16-2000).]

[von Lucke]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trooper:

Now just as long as I can wear my paratrooper's wings....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just so long as you wear 'em on the right side of yr BDU's, no prob (US Army badges go on the left).