Crews Getting Back In Abandoned Vehicles/Bunkers?

[JeffRaider]

Is this possible in the Gold Demo or Full Version? I read it was, but I'm not sure how to do it in Gold Demo....

[Bastables]

Re-crewing will only occur in-between scenarios and then only during operations. Also it should be noted that you can only re-crew vehicles that have not been brewed up.

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One of these days MattBot, people like me will rise up and overthrow you, and the end of tyranny by the homeostatic machine will have arrived.

[Guest Michael emrys]

Bastables wrote:

"Re-crewing will only occur in-between scenarios and then only during operations. Also it should be noted that you can only re-crew vehicles that have not been brewed up."

This raises an interesting question: What, if any, provision is made to recover damaged tanks and other AFVs in campaign games?

Michael

[Bastables]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys:

Bastables wrote:

"

This raises an interesting question: What, if any, provision is made to recover damaged tanks and other AFVs in campaign games?

Michael<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The search button is a mighty tool.

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One of these days MattBot, people like me will rise up and overthrow you, and the end of tyranny by the homeostatic machine will have arrived.

[Boris Balaban]

If I recall on the recovery of AFVs in campaigns is you have to WIN THE FIELD OF BATTLE and your vehicles depending how bad it is it will be replaced by a new one.

So if you get the enemy to abandon his vehicle keep shooting at it untill it is destroyed for the enamy will not get a replacement for it in the next battle.

[Guest tom w]

ok

well lets push that a little further, (Hell why not we ALL push EVERYTHING a little further when it comes to this game)

What about capturing enemy AFV's that are not brewed up.

This might sound crazy but I would really like the opportunity to try to capture a tank in battle. OK the odds of success should be REALLY low but what about capturing abandoned enemy AFV's in operations in between scenario's?

Sorry I did not do a search and I suspect this is not modeled in the game because I imagine it is not all that realistic, BUT it would be FUN to try to capture enemy AFV's

Just my thoughts as we were disccussing re-crewing AFV's in between scenario's in an operation.

-tom w

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Boris Balaban:

If I recall on the recovery of AFVs in campaigns is you have to WIN THE FIELD OF BATTLE and your vehicles depending how bad it is it will be replaced by a new one.

So if you get the enemy to abandon his vehicle keep shooting at it untill it is destroyed for the enamy will not get a replacement for it in the next battle. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"Remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

G. S. Patton <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Echo]

Playing VT the other day, I pounded an Arty piece until the crew abandond the gun. I lifted my fire, and 1 or 2 turns later, the crew had rallied remanned the gun. Boy was I shocked when those rounds started coming in again (after Id begun an advance in the open). Nice feature.

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As I walk through the Valley of Death, I will fear no one, for I am the meanest mother*#*#** in the valley. (George S. Patton)

[Mike D]

Current game of VOT I'm playing against my buddy I lost 2 of my 60mm mortars to abandonment right during the first turn or two. They both took some brief fire from mortars, the 150mm gun, or the 75mm gun. The first one actually took no casualties. They simply freaked out and abandoned there weapon. Moved back ever so slightly from it and then just stood there for turns on end. Tried moving them right back onto the abandoned weapon marker and the son of a bitches never would reman the thing even though there were no injuries to the crew. The second one was pretty much the same story. They did take one casualty though. Neither unit panicked or broke and ran. Just **** there pants, abandoned there weapon, and then just stood there. Neither one ever seemed to make an attempt to reman the weapon on their own and/or when I moved them right on top of it.

Needless to say, I was pretty pissed. And frankly, I think this is something that needs to be fixed in the game. It's rediculous to have guys just abandon a weapon when the first large caliber shell lands nearby and then never be able to reman it. Real troops would sure as hell make an attempt to, right?

Sorry for my ranting, but this kind of stuff really bugs me.

Mikester out.

[Guest Scott Clinton]

It is my understand that...

Re-manning of friendly equipment is under consideration by BTS. The main reason given that it is not in CM now is that it can VERY EASILY be exploited by players in an unrealistic and 'gamey' manner, thus making this possible actually takes away from the game more than it adds. Last I recall they were considering ways to add this feature while avoiding undo 'gamey' play.

The re-equipping of units with enemy equipment YOU capture during play will not be in any of the CM series of games. The reasons are that realistically the re-equipping of units with captured enemy equipment was something that happened WELL outside the time frame of even the standard CM operation.

Frankly, I agree with both decisions by BTS.

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Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own.

[This message has been edited by Scott Clinton (edited 05-19-2000).]

[Guest mch]

I don't understand what "gamey" tactics

could come from re-manning equipment.

(maybe someone could tell me..)

(I swear..I won't use them....I mean it!)

[Bullethead]

Mike D said:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It's rediculous to have guys just abandon a weapon when the first large caliber shell lands nearby and then never be able to reman it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is more to ABANDONED weapons than meets the eye. Back with the old demo at least, ABANDONED was essentially a sub-category of KNOCKED OUT. It meant that some sort of damage had been done and the crew left because they judged at the time that it was screwed, although it might not have been so bad in actuality. I think the main point of having both ABANDONED and KNOCKED OUT is that the former might be easier to return to service between battles of an operation.

However, in the gold version, ABANDONED seems to have taken the additional meaning of panicked crews leaving weapons they know are functional. In this case, they MAY come back later. I haven't seen this happen, but I have seen bunker crews that I've just by-passed without firing on at all run from their positions late in the game.

So, the question in the above mortar situation is what type of ABANDONED we have. If crews CAN return to undamaged equipment, then I'd bet you had the old type of ABANDONED with some damage to the weapons.

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-Bullethead

jtweller@delphi.com

WW2 AFV Photos: people.delphi.com/jtweller/tanks/tanks.htm

[gaffertape]

I think BTS have stated that they won't model re-crewing of AFVs because of A) Gamey tactic abuse and The relative rareness of this event historically.

I imagine that there may be some changes for CM2 (East Front) where enemy equipment use was far more commonplace. Even then it may simply mean that the German side may start a game with say, a captured T-34 or two.

[This message has been edited by gaffertape (edited 05-19-2000).]

[Mark IV]

I was able to re-man the infantry gun after the crew freaked over a 105 bombardment.

As for manning captured equipment within a campaign... I'm trying to picture Wehrmacht grunts finding a serviceable T34, hopping inside, and without a minute of tank or gunnery training and no knowledge of Russian, turning it into a viable AFV on a battlefield. Not saying that a crew of geniuses somewhere didn't do it once, but would you model it?

Of course, with a little movie magic, any hero can hop into a Soviet helicopter and not only operate everything, but outfight crews who have spent years training in them. So perhaps I'm wrong.

[JeffRaider]

How did you reman the gun? Just move the troops onto it?

[TZEENCH]

Please tell the rest of the CM world on how to reman adandond weapons..... I really would like to know.

HEHEHEHEHEHEHHEHEHE

(inf Guns Lives again)

[109 Gustav]

Here's another hypothetical situation.

Lets say that in LD, one of my halftracks gets knocked out. The crew abandons it, and both of them manage to survive. Later, another halftrack gets shot up by a couple of M1919s. One of the crew members to this track dies, and the other one therefore abandons the track. Couldn't the crew from the knocked out halftrack take over the undamaged but abandoned one?

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There is nothing certain about war except that one side won't win.

-Ian Hamilton 1920

[Guest Big Time Software]

You can't re-man abandoned weapons in a battle in CM, for the reasons that Scott Clinton outlined. Consider that when a crew abandons a weapon, they're really spooked. Simply jumping into a ditch for a moment is simulated by making the crew pinned (or maybe panicked) but not abandoning the weapon.

We make the distinction, because in an *operation*, you can re-man an abandoned gun provided you hold the ground that the gun occupies. Same goes for abandoned vehicles (though some repair must also take place in that case, and the recovery process is restricted by your side's ability to repair vehicles - a parameter set by the scenario author).

Charles

[buddy]

How about Audie Murphy when he jumped on the burning tank and opened up on enemy infantry with the 50 cal?

Why can't any groundpounder jump on an abandoned weapon and start throwing lead downrange? It's not that hard to man a different weapon unless it's crew served or a specialty weapon (mortar, tank main gun, etc)

[armorbuff]

Hey thats a good point. Didnt ASL have rules for heros that could do things "normal"

troops couldn't.. I know this geme has long since departed from the original CSL concept,

but maybe at least some keeping with the original spirit would be a good thing?

[Guest Scott Clinton]

> How about Audie Murphy when he jumped on

> the burning tank and opened up on enemy

> infantry with the 50 cal?

> Why can't any groundpounder jump on an

> abandoned weapon and start throwing lead

> downrange? It's not that hard to man a

> different weapon unless it's crew served

> or a specialty weapon (mortar, tank main

> gun, etc)

Gotta love this guy (Audie that is!-- He was a Texan ya know )

The reason this is not allowed is because it was VERY rare for this to happen in battle...maybe 1 in every 1,000 engagements something like this would happen (at most). If BTS tried to model EVERY remotely possible thing like this it would not only be a nightmare for Charles, but it would leave HUGE gaps for gamey behavior.

The VERY reason we know of what Mr. Murphy did, and why he was so highly decorated and respected is because it was so rare. If you allow it to happen it will happen WAY too often in the game, thus it ends up being 'gamey' and takes more away from the aspect of reaslism than it could possibly add.

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Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own.

[Mark IV]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark IV:

I was able to re-man the infantry gun after the crew freaked over a 105 bombardment<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll have to look- perhaps they were just panicked????

They were hiding, but now that I think of it, I don't recall the gun saying Abandoned- perhaps I just assumed it with the crew in the bushes. Sorry about the confusion if that was the case.

[Echo]

The AI gun I saw was definitely abandoned. Once the crew rallied, they remanned the weapon. (And died because of it).

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As I walk through the Valley of Death, I will fear nothing, for I am the meanest mother*#*#** in the valley. (George S. Patton)