killmore Posted February 25, 2000 Share Posted February 25, 2000 Was the panter engine ever made reliable? Did Germany ever started to produce reliable version? What was the average life of the engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted February 26, 2000 Share Posted February 26, 2000 I believe the engine in the Panther was reliable. It was only the early production (Kursk) Panthers that had real problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwcanuck Posted February 26, 2000 Share Posted February 26, 2000 The Panther engine in the later models were very reliable...In the Panzermuseum in Germany it wasn't all that long ago the Maybach HL230P30 V-12 engine in the Befehls Command Panther on display was recently replaced to keep the Panther in running condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 26, 2000 Share Posted February 26, 2000 The Panther engine was TERRIBLE when the tank was first rushed to the front at Kursk. They lost something like half of the Panthers on the drive to the start line. We're talking a 1 to 2 km drive maximum here and it totalled over 40 of 90 Panthers committed to the offensive From there the Panther engine did become more reliable but it really couldn't get much worse. German mechanics were hampered by Hitler's insistence on keeping tank production figures high at the expense of spare parts production. His generals wanted a 20% cut in new tank production so as to get ample spare parts to keep every tank in the field running. This would have resulted in a greater overall number of active tanks but Hitler loved high production figures so this couldn't happen. The Panther was so unreliable that it's engine was fitted with a fire extinguisher which was specifically designed to trigger once the engine overheated to (and I'm going from memory so I might have the temperature slightly wrong) 120 degrees Centigrade. The fire extinguisher had 5 discharges and it was relatively common for long road marches to result in disabled Panthers with burnt out engines after either the fire extinguisher failed OR it discharged 5 times and was empty the 6th time. Still, overall the Panther was definitely made more reliable over time and by June 1944 I wouldn't have a problem driving a Panther tactically. Conducting long road marches though was generally a recipe for disaster as you could just guarantee to lose a lot of Panthers due to engine failure during the march. To be fair these Panthers could almost always be repaired and returned to the unit within a few hours to days but still it is an unfortunate oversight in the design system. It's impossible to discuss average life of the engine since a lot depends on skill of the driver. I remember reading of one bunch of green drivers who lost 20 Panthers due to breakdowns during a 2 or 3 km drive. Some veterans were able to drive their Panther for hundreds of kilometres without a single breakdown. It all depends on the care you take, the stress you put the engine under etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werfer Posted February 26, 2000 Share Posted February 26, 2000 Going from memory also, it wasn,t just the intital engine that was weak, but the gearbox/transmission also that the 1st production types had many problems with. Hitlers' order to put as many whole vehicles out as possible caused another short-sided problem to occur with many vehicles having broken down and then destroyed by their crews for the lack of simple repair parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted February 26, 2000 Share Posted February 26, 2000 I think the Panther and Tiger drivelines were simply overtaxed as the vehicles came out much heavier than the initial designs. But I think Killmore asks because of that CC story he posted where it talks about final drives going to fail. Final drives were a problem in the Panzer IV as well. Engine reliability and final drive relliability are two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted February 26, 2000 Share Posted February 26, 2000 The problems of the Panther engine Maybach HL 230 P30 were basically due to a number of factors: Some of them were: 1st: The motors weren´t sufficiently run in and operated by unskilled drivers. 2nd: Very often the cylinder head gaskets burns through and the oil pump driveshaft broke. 3rd: The motors were overrevved, which caused overheating and broken connection rods. 4th: In many cases the fuel pups failed. The fuel pump seals leaked and the pump membranes were defective. 5th: As a consequence of 3. and 4. the leaks in oil line and fuel line connections there was a high increase in the danger of fire. Most of the problems were resolved at the end of 1943 and with major improvements and overhauls of the Maybach HL 230 P30 motors the lifespan of the motors was significantly prolonged over the life span of the initial motor series. As a report from I.Abteilung/Panzerregiment 2 from March 1944 states: In general, the newer motors have a significantly longer livespan than the first series. The longest distance achieved by a motor is 1700 to 1800 km in 3 of the 7 Panthers still available. The motor failures that did occur were all of the same nature, bearing damage and broken connection rods. Helge ------------------ Sbelling chequed wyth MICROSOFT SPELLCHECKER - vorgs grate! - The DesertFox - Email: desertfox1891@hotmail.com WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/2930/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted February 27, 2000 Share Posted February 27, 2000 I've also read that the early Panthers had watertight-sealed engine compartments, due to very high fording requirements in the original design. After it was apparent that there weren't going to be many instances requiring heavy-duty fording (and the heat problems created by a sealed engine box) the compartments were built along more standard lines. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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