MadMatt & CMHQ

[Hamstersss]

Random thoughts? While others got caught up on the contractual aspect that Madmatt presented, I responded to your issues, Pham. The gist of my statements is this:

If the modmakers and scenario makers don't like it, then they don't have to post their work on CMHQ. Nothing is making them, there is no implicit or explicit agreement between Madmatt and them. You, someone who neither makes scenarios nor mods, jumping in here to "Champion their cause", is an act not of charity but of trolling.

The funny thing is, I gave you the response you wanted (e.g. "You're an idiot.") and then I approached the issues you presented. Your response, to ignore my actual destruction of your case and focus on the slander, literally saying that they were random thoughts, just demonstrates that you're not out for any kind of discussion, you just want to be flamed.

Well, here's some more attention for you.

You are still an idiot.

------------------

Did someone compare this to the Ealing comedies? I've shot people for less.

-David Edelstein

[Hamstersss]

Well, I'm not sure if my perjorative would be considered slander or libel, as it is printed and not literally spoken, but I'm not afraid of lawsuits as one of the two cast-iron defenses against libel and slander is that it is not such if it's true.

------------------

Did someone compare this to the Ealing comedies? I've shot people for less.

-David Edelstein

[Pham911]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by barrold713:

That boy would complain if he was hung with new rope.

MadMatt provides a great service and should rightfully get the credit for his work and the money per the contract he signed.

Being a poster boy for the declining public school system must leave plenty of time to aggravate others since that seems to be Pham911's purpose when posting.

To somehow get the thought that the term 3rd Party is prejorative of the posters talent or lessens the appreciation of their work by Matt is clearly the result of a very faulty thought process. If Matt and BTS represent the 1st and 2nd Parties as is logical since they are the producer of the game and the proprietor of the site, then it stands to reason that anyone outside of that primary relationship would be a 3rd Party.

I certainly do not remember anyone being subject to specific ridicule for submitting their mods and more often than not, special consideration and kudos is publicly proclaimed on the site and in this board for the mods that are posted. So to even attempt to portray Matt giving these other talented people the red-headed stepchild treatment (no offense to red-headed stepchildren) is way off base.

And another thing...when is the last time you produced anything of value in here or another site? I guess some people are only good for tearing down other people's efforts.

BDH

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Barold, baby, it's bad forum to bitch about poor logic(it wasn't) and then end the post with an ad hominem attack.

And, more thanks for the fan mail that trickled in while I was posted my most recent message. I like the public school system comment best out of the new ones. It made me smile.

Lastly, I expect that BTS will lock this thread shortly since you people seem to get real jittery when people question your idols and can't form decent rebuttels. That will be a shame, as it would, in all fairness, preclude any more UPDATE!!!! ads from Matt about CMHQ. Because, CMHQ is either on topic, or off, and if it's off, it would have to apply to both sides, no? Does BTS even know that this is supposed to be a commercial site? Can I get a commission from the Army for posting recruitment ads here?

[Philistine]

I'm not really sure what the problem is with Madmatt getting some money for the work he does maintaining CMHQ for TGN.

If I understand the way the relationship works, IEN owns TGN and IGN) has deals with advertisers given money for uniquie IP addresses that visit the TGN site in return for TGN running banners. TGN gets some percentage of the money paid to IEN.

TGN has a number of (generally very good) pages dealing with a number of games. The subcontract out CM's to Madmatt (& Fionn?). Madmatt does the work that otherwise an employee of TGN would have to do to maintain the website & provide content. For doing that Matt gets some percentage of the percentage that TGN gets, and TGN doesn't have to pay a salary to somebody to do the work.

I don't see a problem. To the extent any Mod or scenario maker (or anyone else) wants to, they can put up their own website and promote it here (and elsewhere) as a number have already done. They can make their own deal with advertisers to run banners and receive money for hits. (I would assume at least some of the other sites do this). From a $ per hour of work standpoint, I'd be shocked if it worked out to even be $1/hr.

Just my $.02 (another person read this--$.03, and another $.04....)

--Philistine

[M. Bates]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Lastly, I expect that BTS will lock this thread shortly since you people seem to get real jittery when people question your idols and can't form decent rebuttels. That will be a shame, as it would, in all fairness, preclude any more UPDATE!!!! ads from Matt about CMHQ. Because, CMHQ is either on topic, or off, and if it's off, it would have to apply to both sides, no? Does BTS even know that this is supposed to be a commercial site? Can I get a commission from the Army for posting recruitment ads here?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pham is making some very valid points here and people are flaming him for it.

If a webmaster in the CM community chooses to air his "dirty laundry" in public, then he or she and other forum contributors must be tolerant to the various reactions.

Pham has been perfectly sensible so far.

"Pham is an idiot" - repeated twice?? Surely a case for "Elijah Meeks" to be warned or banned for this offensive language towards another contributor.

[Guest *Captain Foobar*]

So Pham, what work have you delivered to Matt that have been cheated on? Oh, none? Oh, OK... just checking.

The fact that someone else comes up with an idea, and the ambition to do something is just none of your business. The fact that Matt might actually make some money off of that website doesnt take a DIME from your bank account. If people who have made mods or articles decide they WANT some form of compensation, that is between them, and whoever they release their work to.

Too many people are worried about what everyone else is doing these days; scared to death that someone make actually make a few bucks. Your post is an example of this.

This funniest part is that this will have NO material effect on you. He is not charging you admission. And furthermore, the charge about him giving top billing to his OWN mods goes completely against your original argument.

If he was obsessed with making money off of other people's backs, he would just sit back, forget mdmp, and let everyone else take over the mod department. Personally, I use some of his mods, and some of the others, based on my OWN opinions of the bmps, not what anyone tells me about them.

SO take a deep breath, relax. There's nothing you can do to keep people in the world from prospering.

(P.S. MadMatt, (aka Cpl Cueball) if you are reading this, stop kicking me from the chatroom.I hate that.)

[Kingfish]

Pham,

You bonehead! This topic has been discussed before. Do a search!

------------------

Charlie don't surf!

[Tiger]

Yeah Madmatt, where's my cut dammit !!!

[Pham911]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah Meeks:

Random thoughts? While others got caught up on the contractual aspect that Madmatt presented, I responded to your issues, Pham. The gist of my statements is this:

If the modmakers and scenario makers don't like it, then they don't have to post their work on CMHQ. Nothing is making them, there is no implicit or explicit agreement between Madmatt and them. You, someone who neither makes scenarios nor mods, jumping in here to "Champion their cause", is an act not of charity but of trolling.

The funny thing is, I gave you the response you wanted (e.g. "You're an idiot.") and then I approached the issues you presented. Your response, to ignore my actual destruction of your case and focus on the slander, literally saying that they were random thoughts, just demonstrates that you're not out for any kind of discussion, you just want to be flamed.

Well, here's some more attention for you.

You are still an idiot.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, thanks, I'm still an idiot.

However, your "destruction of my argument" wasn't all that harmful as it turns out. I double checked to see if something was on the scenario upload screen at CMHQ, but the page refused to load and I gave up after 10 tries or so. So, riddle me this; Does the page where you upload scenarios have an explicit release of copyright?

Ok, ahem, here's a quote that makes the CMHQ question irrelevant:

From the license agreement in the CM manual:

"User created scenarios may be distributed free of charge, but may not be sold or licensed, or included as part of any package or product that is sold or licensed, without prior written consent from Battlefront.com"

So, even if Matt makes an agreement with scenario designers, it will leave Battlefront.com in a bind, as copyright law is a "use it or lose it" deal. If they don't enforce it against someone who is selling a package to advertisers("The CMHQ website, along with the great and popular feature of user made downloadable scenarios"), Battlefront.com can lose the ability to enforce the copyright.

Your destruction of my argument detonated prematurely.

And, lastly, when did it become trolling to take issue with a commercial website posting here and stealing user made scenarios for thier own benifit? It seems like a legitimate issue to me. It's not flame bait, though I admitted in the beginning that it wouldn't be taken well by many here. It doesn't mean it isn't true. If you walk into a neo-nazi rally and announce that white, jews, blacks, and everyone else are no different fundamentally, it won't be taken well but it doesn't make the nazi's right. This isn't to call anyone here a nazi, btw. It's just an example and is NOT flame bait.

Actually, your insistance that it's a troll is a red herring. It's not a troll, and trying to divert the argument isn't working.

[M. Bates]

Pham has raised some issues which should be addressed.

[Guest *Captain Foobar*]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>And, lastly, when did it become trolling to take issue with a commercial website posting here and stealing user made scenarios for thier own benifit? It seems like a legitimate issue to me. It's not flame bait, though I admitted in the beginning that it wouldn't be taken well by many here. It doesn't mean it isn't true<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because he hasn't stolen anything! You didnt choose to respond to MY post for obvious reasons. It would stop your ranting cold, if you looked at my points logically. It doesnt concern you if other people DONATE their work to his site. If there is someone specific who has been denied compensation when asked for it, please list him/her. If there is noone who is currently in dispute with Matt, your argument is completely irrelevant.

Now about him airing his dirty laundry, I have no comment. Thats kind of yucky, and its punishment is self-inflicted. But this conflict of interest/ethical argument is completely off the wall.

[Insu]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pham911:

Taking money for other peoples work(scenarios, non-CMHQ mods) smacks of sleaze... You're using the material to attract hits, and are planning on profiting off those hits, but have no plans(that I can tell) to give money back to the people who are making your site profitable. Is that right?

Something, that is, beyond a weak "I offer advice on completed work" rational. Sure, you can offer advice, and most people actually encourage advice from any interested parties, but your advice doesn't somehow give you a vested interest in the work, nor does it make you a co-creator.

B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you any idea of how much work it is to run a website like CMHQ?

Are you aware of that it is an obligation, towards visitors, for a webmaster to check everything he receives and decide whether it is appropriate to put it on the site?

Are you aware of that the people who create the mods doesn´t do it for money, they do it for YOU! and I´m quite sure that they are very happy that CMHQ exists so they can get some acknowledge for their work, even if Matt earns some money.

Since I can only judge you from your comments, I can´t help to think that you have very little experience of what it takes to run a website.

Get real, and don´t be so selfish. Without some payment to the people running a website it will "die" and in this case you will be pissed off that you can´t find a good official site for CM.

As for Matt´s comments on his site you like them or don´t like them. Just imagine how grand the personal touch of CMHQ would be without someone writing comments.

And Matt, keep up the good work!

[Philistine]

Just to address a couple of the points:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pham911:

{snip}

From the license agreement in the CM manual:

"User created scenarios may be distributed free of charge, but may not be sold or licensed, or included as part of any package or product that is sold or licensed, without prior written consent from Battlefront.com"

So, even if Matt makes an agreement with scenario designers, it will leave Battlefront.com in a bind, as copyright law is a "use it or lose it" deal. If they don't enforce it against someone who is selling a package to advertisers("The CMHQ website, along with the great and popular feature of user made downloadable scenarios"), Battlefront.com can lose the ability to enforce the copyright. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where did you get this idea from? Copyright law is not "use it or lose it." Failure to enforce against one infringer does not in any way prevent enforcement against another.

Of course, Madmatt (& TGN) is not infringing the copyright. They are not being sold or licensed or included in a package for sale or license. Advertisers pay IEN (or TGN) to run banners. In return, TGN pays Madmatt a portion of the advertising revenues. Scenarios aren't being sold.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

And, lastly, when did it become trolling to take issue with a commercial website posting here and stealing user made scenarios for thier own benifit? It seems like a legitimate issue to me. It's not flame bait, though I admitted in the beginning that it wouldn't be taken well by many here. {sinp}<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the trolling part is your characterization of what Madmatt is doing as "stealing" and "shifty" and "smacking of sleaze." What do you expect the reaction to be? If the thread is closed down, it will be because of your intemperate use of language (as well as some of those who respond).

--Philistine

[Guest Big Time Software]

First of all... I challenge Mr. Pham to back up his various slights that we are discriminatory towards people who have enough braincells to formulate a productive thought and that we lock up threads to protect people we somehow favor. Either that or you can face the other possibility that you are a big pain in the ass and offer NOTHING productive with your pissing and moaning, and that perhaps that is why we close up your foulmouthed bitch sessions and move on to something worthy of intelligent people's time.

Now... on to the issues raised here...

First of all, might I point out that TGN and their parent company are making money, indirectly, off of all the work that MadMatt and others have done. Duh... have you noticed the banner ads on the site or the fact that TGN is a portal within a portal? You do know that these places make money off of your clicks, don't you? This is true for ANY site that has some vested interest in visitorship (like c/net hosting our demo for example). So the notion that someone isn't making money, indirectly, off of all the stuff on CMHQ is quite frankly not thinking.

Now, should Matt be able to profit from doing all the hard work that he has put into CMHQ? You bet. In fact, we have urged him to get what he was supposed to get. Any monies due to him would be for the hits, not for the content. Obviously, one drives the other.

However, anybody that knows anything about publishing knows that you can't charge a magazine, website, whatever for a portion of the advertising fees they receive from the publication. If Matt was selling the mod packs, that would be another story.

Just like in the rest of the known publishing world, if you don't like the policies, look, or whatever for a publication you do NOT have to either read/visit it or submit/supply any form of content.

In short... there is nothing wrong with Matt, or anybody else, making advertising money off of CM releated services. It doesn't matter if it is CMHQ, the 6 page strategy guide in a recent UK publication, or someone that hosts PBEM tournies along with banner ads.

Think a little before you go off on someone who busts his ass to provide for your entertainment at no direct charge to you.

Sheesh... next thing you know Pham will be telling us we can't make a profit from CM because it is imoral or something...

Steve

[Guest Madmatt]

Ok, somehow this whole thing is turning into a discussion on my perceived greed.

How is my not getting paid for the ads that are currently running on CMHQ have ANYTHING to do with your analagy of a Video Store?

CMHQ is not a store, it a hosted website run by me that resides under the direct managemant of The Gamers Network which is owned by iEntertainment Network. All hosted sites are entitled to a share of the profits that the ad banners run. For many reasons, I am not getting my share that is owed to me via the terms of a contract I signed. These are adds that have been runnign on CMHQ since DAY ONE.

I do provide a service however to those people that wish to have their material posted. They get to have thousands of vistors see their material and appreciate there work wheter it be a Mod, screenshot, or article.

We need to make a disctinction on the Scenario Depot however. That is NOT run by me (although I have rights to authorize submissions) that is a service provided by The Gamers Network/iEN which is extended to all their hosted websites. IIRC there was an arragement made between TGN and BTS on this some time ago.

M. Bates, it is NOT the same thing. I am offering no contract to the people that submit material and I have never said that they would get money for their work. They are aware of this and it has never been a concern. My issue is that a contract was signed and the terms of the contract are not being fullfilled.

I was getting 2000+ hits a day long before I started posting Mods and they are NOT the reason people come to visit. For the past 11 months I have been updating the page, and trying to improve the content not because I wanted more ad revenue but because I wanted the games appeal to broaden and bring more people on board.

As to the comment about me receiving free advertising about my site from BTS, you need to a get a grip on reality. I would think it safe to say that the opposite is true and I believe Steve and Charles would agree with that. During the time of beta-demo and up to the release I tried to do everything in my power to help promote this game.

CMHQ has been and will continue to be a vehicle in which I can support Combat Mission and Steve and Charles. What they have done to the wargaming industry and the way in which they have done so struck a chord with me and the results is how CMHQ is today.

Also there is another issue here. What about the Annex, that IS my server and yet I allow the Canadian site to run on it free of charge. If i was some sort of money grubbing tyrant, wouldn't it have made sense to just encorporate his stuff into CMHQ where I could reap the benefits of the added hits? The actualy purpose of the Annex was to test the feasability of hosting CMHQ locally so I wouldnt HAVE to run ad banners as I don't particulary like them. I also support the CMMC site (one which will generate a ton ofg hits) which is run on my own system as I feel I can give it better support there (again, no banners). I have an entire mail-subsystem that I purchased, not to mention the Chat system and IRC channel that I own. These are all separate ventures from CMHQ and I have sought no compensation for them.

Go on the web and visit any of the hundereds of sites that support a game like I do with CMHQ. You will see that they all run banners, do you honestly think that any of the profits go to the people that submit material to those sites?

As to your latest argument:

"User created scenarios may be distributed free of charge, but may not be sold or licensed, or included as part of any package or product that is sold or licensed, without prior written consent from Battlefront.com""

CMHQ is not sold or licensed, so I fail to see your point here. They are provided free of charge.

You keep refering to CMHQ as a commerical site. It is not, I am not selling anything. The mods, articles, and 100% of my content is free of charge.

The Advertisers to whom I have ad banners for have a deal with TGN and iEN to share proceeds from clicks/referenced sales/ etc. I was promised the portion as laid down in a contract to those proceeds. I am only asking that I get what was promissed.

Also I would now like to be excused for trying to make my site as good as it can be. You seem to think that my desire to make CMHQ popular is somehow wrong. I disagree.

The comment about the IP was not a threat, just a statement of fact. If you really no longer wish to visit my site and don't have the discipline to do so I can make this easy for you.

I do appologize if my comments are a little wandering, I should have probably just waited to I was feeling better but questions like those that were asked need to be dicussed. I would also urge you guys to leave the personal insults behind. We are all privy to our opinions but lets try and keep this matter on the up and up.

I can't help but feel that my character is being called into question though, and that does trouble me deeply. So deeply that I think I will go and lay down and remember how little I really care about what you think of me...

Thanks!

Madmatt

P.s. I see that Steve has just posted a message in response. This message was written prior to his although he said what I wanted to much better and with greater brevity.

------------------

If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ!

Combat Mission HQ

CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission

CMHQ-Annex

Host of the Combat Mission WebRing

[This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 09-18-2000).]

[Sten]

Pham911,

I have been working alongside Madmatt for almost a year now. He is one of the hardest working of all the betatesters, which is volontary, unpaid, work. He has (to my knowledge) not seen a dime from this work, yet he keeps at it with a vigilance few of the other betatesters can muster. (I'm not slamming the rest of the guys, just praising Madmatt. )

In addition to this, he (and Fionn) has put in enormous amounts of work in the CMHQ site. A LOT of the stuff on CMHQ has been made by, or with help from, Madmatt (and Fionn).

To the other contributors to CMHQ Madmatt clearly states that their work will not be sold for profit. He has not broken this deal. He's only trying to get some money from ads on the site, the site that he built.

Where's the wrong in that?

Just as with Madmatts betatesting work, the other contributors to CMHQ has known from the start that what they did was non-profitable work. Should the betatesters get paid for their work as well, since CM wouldn't be all that it is without our work?

My answer is NO.

We, the betatesters, agreed to work for free and BTS has found a way to turn a profit from our work. Good for them.

CMHQs contributors agreed to work for free and Madmatt found a way to turn a profit from their work. Good for him.

Please tell me where our opinions differ.

Sten

------------------

Keep your whisky on the rocks and your tanks on the roll.

[jdmorse]

Pham/Bates

You haven't been around all that long so you may not be aware that Matt quite some time ago disclosed that there was a financial arrangement with TGN, based on the number of hits. He has JOKED about this as well at other times. There never has been any attempt to disguise or hide that fact.

Further your claims that he is in essence is using their work and stealing or is somehow sleazy what is "rightfully" theirs is legally incorrect and insulting. Also, that BTS's policy is being infirnged is also incorrect. What you quoted says that no one may sell a scenario, ie charge for the privlige of downloading. Who is paying are the advertisers, not for the scenario but acess to us, the people hitting his sight.

Numerous people here "advertise" their sites, Rob1, Colin, PeterNZ etc. perhaps they have a financial interest in our accessing. Granted prob not, because their draw wouldn't be enough, but they could find hosting sites, that do pay, they just want to advertise though, just as with CMHQ.

Remember what you are implying that the mod/sceanrio makers should get a share of the pie DOES violate the BTS restriction.

Finally, is the need you felt to post this. The fact you started it off with essentially the phrase "I'll prob piss some people off" shows that you made a deliberate and calculated act to piss people off, ie start flaming.

Of passing note is your claim that people get all bothered when one of the "hero's" is attacked, is insulting to us as a community. Some people seem to thrive on being anti everything, and creating conflict, this smacks of that.

------------------

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers"

-- King Henry VI, Part II, Act 4, sc.2, l.86

[Diceman]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pham911:

Ok, ahem, here's a quote that makes the CMHQ question irrelevant:

From the license agreement in the CM manual:

"User created scenarios may be distributed free of charge, but may not be sold or licensed, or included as part of any package or product that is sold or licensed, without prior written consent from Battlefront.com"

So, even if Matt makes an agreement with scenario designers, it will leave Battlefront.com in a bind, as copyright law is a "use it or lose it" deal. If they don't enforce it against someone who is selling a package to advertisers("The CMHQ website, along with the great and popular feature of user made downloadable scenarios"), Battlefront.com can lose the ability to enforce the copyright.

Your destruction of my argument detonated prematurely.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He's not selling scenarios or anything else on the sight. TGN is renting advertising space, a quite seperate issue from selling scenarios. It's not a crime to attract potential customers to advertisements by giveing away matterial for free. Nor is it an infringement on the above copyright. Your argument is specious at best.

------------------

Pair-O-Dice

"Once a Diceman, Always a Diceman."

[deanco]

I have been watching Pham911's posts since he started posting here. When he first started posting, he had some really funny posts. I got a big kick out of them. Then, to paraphrase Joseph Heller, Something Happened. He's got a bone to pick now, the funny posts are no more. I'm not saying who's right or who caused it, I'm just saying, Something Happened.

Pham911, forget your vendetta. It's not worth it man, life is too short. I prefer to think of you as the guy with the funny posts. No forum, no SITUATION, is worth getting worked up like this.

DeanCo--

[Abbott]

Does it strike anyone else as funny how Phamm and bates are together on this? Talk about a couple of...

[Emos]

Matt, I hope that your contractual difficulties get ironed out soon so that you get the compensation you deserve....the work that you've put into CMHQ is fantastic!

------------------

"You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"

--Dr. Strangelove--

[Priest]

Okay. Pham thanks for the props above and like I said I am happy to hear your opinion. Now though I think the arguement has produced some results. First Steve and Charles agree with what Matt & Fionn (nice play on the last AAR) are doing. The majority of the contributors and players that have chimed in have stated that they support Matt. I do. Everytime I play CM I see all the pretty graphics and hear all the neat sounds that I downloaded from CMHQ. Matt has also chimed in after having oral surgery (my vote was for hair implants ) and responded to your questions. Their was no malice involved. Pham and Bates your points are well taken but I think that at this point in time it is clear that the CM community has decided that Matt & Fionn deserve some reward for their diligence (like we really have a say).Anyways thanks Matt & Fionn. And always thanks Steve & Charles. And of course thanks Pham and Bates for you opinions and everyone else that contributed. It made my day at work more interesting, although I am betting Matt wishes he had a lot of valium and was asleep right now. CODINE I NEED CODINE

So this is how you make the damn smileys work!!!!

------------------

Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb

-Priest

[This message has been edited by Priest (edited 09-18-2000).]

[Guest KwazyDog]

*sigh*....Not much can be said here that hasn’t already been said.

One comment that did anger me was the 'stealing of scenarios' statement made above. Out of interest Pham (and leaving out the fact that the scenarios section is not run by matt as he stated above), where were these scenarios stolen from? They weren’t stolen from me, even though I have posted one or two over there in the past. Calling them stolen insults every good-natured designer that has shared their scenarios with us over there.

As for the mod pack comment you made (and haven’t touched again since your original post), I personally couldn't really care either way if anyone even knows if I work on the MDMP packs or not, and I certainly didn’t expect to get paid for them (even though I knew matts arrangement). The vehicles I did in the were in my own free time for the good of the CM community and to (yes, it sounds corny)'make people happy'.

You’ve tried your best to make matt sounds like a greedy 'vampire' here, but it was you whom twisted Matts post into this image, you whom seem to have greed at heart. I have read his comment and I saw no comments that made me even consider the issues you have rased. I guess such deceptions must be in your nature but are not part of mine. The fact that Matt left it 11 months alone before perusing the matter should be enough to tell you that dollars weren’t the number one issue for him. It is the CM community that he has maintained his page for, not the advertisers. Matt has every right to chase up the entitlements he was promised. I have yet to see one good reason from you why he shouldn’t?

Pham, if you are this easily upset (and personally I don’t think you are, you come across like the sort whom likes a good argument), you best move would be to cancel your internet connection. I mean, I hope you don’t use Yahoo or for that matter any other search engine do you? I hate to be the one to break it to you but they all get paid for those ads plastered everywhere...you do realise that, don’t you? For that matter, never but a magazine again (yes, they really screw you, they make you pay for the mag and THEN get money from the advertisers!) and throw your TV out of the window...wont be needing that anymore.

Its great to see all the posters here supporting matt...Id like so say thanks guys, the occasional post like this does get me done but its the 50 responses from guys like you that bring me back up again

[Priest]

Kwazy thanks for your contributions to the MDMP. I didn't know. They are great.

------------------

Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb

-Priest

[Guest KwazyDog]

No worries, glad you enjoyed them priest, I did the non-winter vehicles in both packs.