Guest hunt52 Posted March 23, 2000 Share Posted March 23, 2000 Well, the Combat Mission Ladder System is approaching critical mass... very soon I will publish the address and let the codeless hordes in to test it. Anyway, I have a couple of things to say... 1. Does anyone have any suggestions about the IMPLEMENTATION of the ranking system (NOT the algorithm, which is out of my control)? A good example is Colin (my alpha tester) suggested that the player rank insignia be accompanied by a text label like "Captian" or "Major". It is now in. Once the code is done and running and people are using the system it will become much much harder to change things. Much harder. If you have any ideas let them out now! For a (very) rudimentary example of the engine check out http://patriot.net/~carey/cgi-bin/players.pl This will give you a good idea of what the engine does (althouth that version is easily 20 hours old... 2. Will there be players who will play non-ladder games? I for one don't intend to participate in the ladder (I do realize the irony here) and hope that the CM community won't become a WINWINWIN! obsessed one. I have seen this happen with other games... So to sum up: 1. Any suggestions? 2. Anyone going to play non-ladder games? - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazzari Posted March 23, 2000 Share Posted March 23, 2000 I for one will not play any ladder games, at least not for a while. I want to play the game for the fun of it, and not for the prestige. Thats just me, though, not too competitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 23, 2000 Share Posted March 23, 2000 I'm going to put all my PBEM games on the ladder. ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citizen Posted March 23, 2000 Share Posted March 23, 2000 1. Suggestion Instead of having the player name be an email link, have the namelink lead to a profile that lists stuff like (all optional): Real Name ICQ # email address Side Preference Map and terrain preferences Size of forces/points preferences Frequency of PBEM turns ( 1/day; 3/day; only on weekends ) 2. I will play some non-ladder games. I used to play Case's Ladder for SMGettysburg and CC2, but didn't like the crap the competitiveness brought. However, I have gotten to know the players here better than back then, so I may play more ladder. Two problems I've found with ladders: A. Mysterious "game crashes." Won't be a problem with turn-based CM. B. Top players don't play newbies. This could be a problem with CM as the games take a lot longer than real-time games, so players will be more selective in choosing opponents. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted March 24, 2000 Share Posted March 24, 2000 I'm curious to know what the formula is for calculating these rankings - is this the one Fionn proposed or something different? ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted March 24, 2000 Share Posted March 24, 2000 I'm curious to know what the formula is for calculating these rankings - is this the one Fionn proposed or something different? ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 24, 2000 Share Posted March 24, 2000 It's a special superduper secret one. ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hunt52 Posted March 24, 2000 Share Posted March 24, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Instead of having the player name be an email link, have the namelink lead to a profile that lists stuff like (all optional): <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It shall be done (good idea) The only *required* field will be an e-mail address because the game engine needs this. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I'm curious to know what the formula is for calculating these rankings - is this the one Fionn proposed or something different? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No idea. Fionn hasn't given me the final algorithm yet. I presume it will be very similar to the one discussed, but this is out of my hands. What he hands me goes in. Also - thanks for not playing all ladder games. (Do play some though people.) - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goanna Posted March 24, 2000 Share Posted March 24, 2000 How are you going to keep people from submitting bogus games to the ladder? For instance, how would you keep me from getting on there and putting in my name and password and then saying I beat several other players (say Peng, Elvis & Berli), without having them confirm the losses? Also, check out the ladder set up at www.pantherworks.com. I don't know how his algorithm works, but the details of the game setup are good, like the short AAR. ------------------ desert rat wannabe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted March 24, 2000 Share Posted March 24, 2000 LOser should post the loss ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted March 24, 2000 Share Posted March 24, 2000 LOser should post the loss ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hunt52 Posted March 24, 2000 Share Posted March 24, 2000 Thanks for asking When you report that you beat someone down with a stick two emails go out. One goes to you and one goes to your opponenet. Inside the e-mail there is a confirmation link. Until both you and your opponenet (sp?) click on the confirmation link the game stays in a holding bin and your scores aren't changed. The confirmation code is randomly determined and is 6 digits long. If you can guess it more power to you... Each player must click on the confirm link before anything happens, so you can't claim to have beaten Fionn (unless you have). Also, if you click random confirmation links without reading your email that is your fault, haha. - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted March 24, 2000 Share Posted March 24, 2000 So how is the information entered regarding the post? does the player that won enter the information and then nothing happens until the other guy replies to his email? could you explain a bit on how the process works from the initialization to the actual post plz thx ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hunt52 Posted March 24, 2000 Share Posted March 24, 2000 Ok: Let's say I am playing a game against Colin. I win, but barely, 54 - 48. I go to the ladder page and go to the submit game page. I enter the information (you can go there and see what needs entered) An e-mail is sent to me. An e-mail is sent to Colin. I click on the confirmation link. Nothing happens to my rank. Colin clicks on the confirmation link. Now the engine realizes that we both confirm the game and updates our ranks on the main page. The e-mails are sent literally 2 seconds after you submit the info, so there is no appreciable delay. Now, if one of you absolutely refuses to click the link, and the game is legitimate, and you can convince me of it I can "force confirm" for people (but this will be VERY rare). Either player can enter the information, and if both do don't click on one of the confirmation links. I may put in some code to prevent this, but I'm not sure how I would do it without potentially excluding legitimate games... - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted March 24, 2000 Share Posted March 24, 2000 thanks for the reply - what if the guy doenst answer the email right away? what happens to the post this could potentially be a problem - someone might be in a hurry with alot of players this could get out of hand fast ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out [This message has been edited by SS_PanzerLeader (edited 03-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hunt52 Posted March 24, 2000 Share Posted March 24, 2000 Games can sit in temporary storage for as long as they need they won't ever vanish. I don't think people will be *finishing* that many games simultaneously. Also since the game requires a double confirmation there is less chance for erroneous games to slip in to the system. Promptness is good. (also I may put in and "expiration date" for games, but haven't decided yet... I'll probably wait and see. If there are 800 games stacked up I will make them expire, so heckel away! - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted March 24, 2000 Share Posted March 24, 2000 I for one look forward to a ladder system. Not for the Goal of being "#1" but as a way to measure how I might stand up to diffrent people. Basically it isn't a positional ranking, but a skill ranking. Just my thoughts Lorak ------------------ http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/combatmissionclub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted March 24, 2000 Share Posted March 24, 2000 Hunt 52 don't you think you might end up with a two level system ? I explain : games might take a long time to play especially by E-mail so I think the good playet would not want to waste their time with newbies or someone who is not close to them as for ladder ranking. Therefore the top players will fight together while the rest just hangs their hoping to get to the top. The best way to learn is to play against someone who is better(I know it might not be so much fun for the one who is by far the best, but they should remember when they started they were not the best). Further more by playing against better guys you will get more points. So personnaly I will not play ladder game unless my opponent force me to do it. And again I might refuse. Personal opinion. ------------------ Veni, vidi, vici Julius Caesar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted March 24, 2000 Share Posted March 24, 2000 I disagree. This ladder system will reward players who play others of close to the same ability level as themselves. What's the point in being totally trounced by someone MUCH better than you when you could have a much closer game by playing someone only 100 points higher ranked than you instead of 300 points higher ranked. you'll learn more and have more fun by playing the 100 points higher-ranked player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted March 25, 2000 Share Posted March 25, 2000 Jeff. nothing personal but that doesn't make sense.Yes you do learn by losing to those better than you are. But not by being humiliated. I play chess and have a ranking. So I should get upset when a grandmaster won't play me? the whole point is to play others close to you, so you have fun, and get better. your rank will increase with playing time. Lorak ------------------ http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/combatmissionclub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howitzer Posted March 25, 2000 Share Posted March 25, 2000 Bill, The ladder demo page looks good. My advice would be to keep it as simple as possible. And, I like the graphics. I'll second the suggestion for the player info that you've already planned to adopt. For me, I plan to play ladder and non-ladder games. I enjoy finding out where I stand relative to other players (so I know how much I need to improve), and sometimes I just enjoy a good game. Thanks for the effort. Looks like it will be fun. Regards- Steve C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getthat_wreckoff_theroad Posted March 25, 2000 Share Posted March 25, 2000 A quick question. Initial ratings - fair ? "Newbie" entering ladder with rating of 1000 but huge amount of CM experience plays CM veteran with rating of say 1400. Veteran loses. Is unfairly penalised ?? Maybe better way to establish inital rating - "entrance examinations" a series of games on accredited scenarios against computer AI (PBEM remote server ??). Logistics of administration possible ? Better reflection of initial starting abilities as all entering ladder go thru procedure ? Maybe nonsense. Maybe good idea. Not know. Just thoughts. Must go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted March 25, 2000 Share Posted March 25, 2000 I like the rank idea. I posted a link in another thread to a Wehrmacht site. http://kneller.com/Wehrmacht/ I don't know what purpose having two nationality ranks would serve, but the site is neat. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted March 25, 2000 Share Posted March 25, 2000 Nationality ranks could show preferred side. I.e. I would choose to be represented by Axis ranks since I prefer playing as the Axis. I can also envision tying this into who can choose sides based on whom challenges whom . (Mind working). Bill, new ranking formula ( totally reworked ) on its way to you today. I've worked it out on paper but haven't had a chance to type it in yet. It's "complicated". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 25, 2000 Share Posted March 25, 2000 Fionn,</p> Can I also suggest that some simple rules be devised for how the game is setup and who challenges who etc?</p> For example, One Player chooses the scenario, the other the side.....that sort of thing</p> Bruce</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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