SEVERE Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 Everytime I play Last Defense,[and by the way I'm new] I always loose my tanks, which are so important. Has anyone not lost there tanks or at least not all of them in this scenario? and do you have any hints for the new guy. I have hidden them among the trees, behind bldgs. , they tend to get knocked out by the US tanks. I failed to mention that I am playing the Germans, which is probably obvious at this time and am playing the AI. Any feedback would be appreciated, but of coarse don't give away your winning secrets. thanks! SEVERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 Leave your Tiger sitting back on the hill you start on. At that range the 88 will fry the Hellcats and the 76's bounce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 Myself I used the Hunt command to drive it down the road, then back it up into the light forest to its left as I didnt know wether there was any allied air support about. It survived the battle and took out two of the M10's from that position with one of my Stugs taking out the other. I do remember that when the M10s arrived they did target the Stug out in the open first (and killed it), even though it had lOS to the Tiger. My guess is it was mis-identified as a Pz IV and the Stug was a better chance of a kill.... I find with tanks its better to keep them back and concealed until they are needed and can be used to suprise your enemy at least until you infantry come under small arms fire and need support. In another scenerio I was testing the other day I was advancing into a town. I knew the enemy infantry was not within close range so I let the Shermans lead in case of armour. I lost 2 in the first turn to damn AT guns, hehe, and another to one of my own Fighter Bombers whom obviously mis-identified him,sill bugger. It would have been better to move some infantry into the top floors of some of the closer buildings to survey the area before driving in all smug like They may have spotted the AT guns and at worse they could have opened fire after their first shot. Oh, and one thing for the future If you playing as the allies and see a King Tiger, run...! Im testing a scenerio I made which has 1 King Tiger and infantry vs about 10 allied tanks and Tank destroyers plus infantry. The snowey terrain with little cover. Even with 2 Jacksons with their 90mm guns they are a tuff nut to crack. It took about 9-10 hits froms Shermans before one managed to knocked the track off (from about 500-700m). I then managed to get a side shot off with one of the Jacksons which penetrated the lower side hull. It didnt burn but the crew had had enough and bailed (that thing cost me a total of 6 AFV's, mostly Shermans). Fun battle, youve really got to plan assults against those things (and dont even talk about JagdTigers, hehe) [This message has been edited by KwazyDog (edited 01-06-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrapGame Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 All this talk of scenarios and new weapons and other new included features that many people have access to as "testers" really incites a high factor of jealousy here. Many of us without this access are still playing last defense for the 112th time (and still enjoying it, I must add ) without these features. This is making the wait for the real thing all the more difficult. Damn you! Curse You! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 However, what is good about us being limited to the 3 scenarios is, we are trying out different tactics just to keep it interesting. I have managed to beat the AI a multiple different ways for each side on each scenario. It really helps when playing against a PBEM opponent, except when they do something that counters your attack. The best way to keep your tanks alive is to follow any sort of tactical advice you can get from books or the internet from WWII tankers. Figure out your vehilcle's strengths and weaknesses and try to use them to your advantage. It isn't too hard, just a little trial and error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stabsfeldwebel Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 damn you testers, damn you i say! They shouldn't be allowed on this board! Not fair, very not fair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 Keeping tanks alive when the other side has effective AT capabilities is VERY difficult under the best of circumstances. This is as true in real life as in the game. The advice above is good stuff. You could also do a Search on "stug" and see what you come up with. There have been several good threads about how to use this difficult vehicle to better effect. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 Hey Kwazy , Long time no hear.. I actually played that scenario yesterday for the first time and had a really good time. I ended up driving my KT into the US setup zones and knocking out the remaining tanks but took out 5 tanks with that first infantry platoon (you know the one . BTW that deep snow is HELL to assault through. It slowed the Allies to a crawl near the river.. When I counter-attacked it took me 7 to 8 minutes to move from my positions on the south of the river to the trees on the north only about 300 metres away.. Good scenario though .. It is a tough one to play. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEVERE Posted January 6, 2000 Author Share Posted January 6, 2000 I just tried playing "Last Defense" again, and used Berlichtingen's advice. I left my Tiger back on the hill and brought my STUG'S down the road,putting them on the edge of the forest[one on each side] near the road.My infantry sniped both frontal positions and when the Hellcats appeared the Tiger really did a number on em. I did loose one STUG but they lost 3 tanks and I kept the rest of my tanks for the duration,[that was fun!!!] and 2 halftracks and whent on to a major victoryThanks for the great input. Fun! Fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GriffinCheng Posted January 7, 2000 Share Posted January 7, 2000 Sevre, My $.02. Try to get your Tiger near the wheat field. In one game I had my HT on my left flank assisting assaults but fell prey on the M10. My tiger pop up near to the farm house and kill all 3 M10s, even 2 of them were hidden behind trees. P.S. Become very jealous of all beta testers since they have all the good things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Foobar Posted January 7, 2000 Share Posted January 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Leave your Tiger sitting back on the hill you start on. At that range the 88 will fry the Hellcats and the 76's bounce<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hey Berlichtingen, 1) Tell me honestly, on your 1st blind game of Last Defense, did you leave that Tiger back on overwatch, or did you rush in like a maniac, like the rest of us? 2) If you look at the situation tactically, without any knowledge of approaching armor, is that position one you would take over 50% of the time? The reason I ask is I'm trying to learn myself some tactics, and I like to hear other people's perspectives on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted January 7, 2000 Share Posted January 7, 2000 Captain Foobar, No, I charged in... actually, I've only used the "sit back on the hill" tactic twice. I still charge in most of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted January 7, 2000 Share Posted January 7, 2000 ...and I never use it in PBEM games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted January 7, 2000 Share Posted January 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>2) If you look at the situation tactically, without any knowledge of approaching armor, is that position one you would take over 50% of the time?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Generally I'd suggest it's a good idea to keep Tiger's back. Range is the Tiger's friend: the effectiveness of the 75mm & 76mm drops off considerably over range, while the 88mm still keeps quite a lot of killing power. Generally I am loath to lead with tanks. I prefer to advance with infantry as infantry AT weapons are quite lethal. It does depend - if the area is clear of zooks the German tanks can get pretty much to point blank and raise some real hell. It's trickier with Allied tanks as so there are so many more tank killing weapons on the German side. I tend to be even more careful. PS If you really don't want to loose tanks you could try tightening them... (*ducks*) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted January 7, 2000 Share Posted January 7, 2000 I, too, have taken Berl's advice and left the Tiger on the hill. It promptly got whacked by the 76s. I just chalk that up to random attack of bad luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted January 7, 2000 Share Posted January 7, 2000 Moriarty, One happening almost on par with losing the tiger to a lucky shot is to have a track blown off, making it a fixed, albeit well-armored, 88mm gun. What a pisser! Not much line of sight from where my tiger got disabled. It did do an admirable job of leveling buildings since there was little else to shoot at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted January 7, 2000 Share Posted January 7, 2000 Always with the negative waves Moriarty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted January 7, 2000 Share Posted January 7, 2000 Don't be too quick to rush tanks forward. Loosing one to a hidden zook is all too possible. Think range and line of sight. Keep your distance. If your tiger can cover the reinforcement point without moving, then why move? Beside risking penetration by reducing range, your tiger gets distracted by being too close to too many targets. Place it in such a way that there is a nice kill cone without any distraction for the tiger. When the US tanks appear, you want that tiger's attention to be where it counts. [This message has been edited by John Maragoudakis (edited 01-07-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted January 7, 2000 Share Posted January 7, 2000 Also, notice the general layout of the terrain. It's like a soup bowl. The center of the battlefield is at a lower elavation than the edges. That means placing your tanks anywhere in the center will expose them to arcing shots that hit the tiger's armor more effectively while your shots will be hitting the hellcats armor less directly. [This message has been edited by John Maragoudakis (edited 01-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnma Posted January 11, 2000 Share Posted January 11, 2000 On leaving the Tiger in overwatch: I have a feeling that's one of the things they were for; Guderian expressly instructed people not to lead with Tigers; and the manual for engagement tactics mentions hanging back for long range overwatch as one of the Tiger's duties. Source ? Sorry for the lack of precision, but I think one of those "The Tiger on the Eastern Front" picture books, with quotes from a contemporary manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goanna Posted January 12, 2000 Share Posted January 12, 2000 I'd have to agree with Berli, since he basically just finished giving me a lesson yesterday on this very subject. I charge in pretty close with the Tiger (near wheat field, or near building in left centre) when I am playing the AI. But when playing against a human, I will tend to stand off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zigster Posted January 12, 2000 Share Posted January 12, 2000 Don't underestimate your mortars. Mortars are brutally effective against open-topped AFVs such as the Hellcats. One hit and kersploomsh. Save your mortar ammo for use against these prime targets, then bring your armour out from behind the buildings or trees you've been using for cover to engage any surviving M18s. Just as an aside, I read a few days ago of a study done in late '44 by the No. 2 Operational Research Group. After interviewing hundreds of battalion medical officers it appeared that some 70%(!!!) of all casualties in 21st Army Group in '44 were caused by mortar fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauhaus Posted January 12, 2000 Share Posted January 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Berlichtingen: Captain Foobar, No, I charged in... actually, I've only used the "sit back on the hill" tactic twice. I still charge in most of the time <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I've been lucky enough to experience both tactics courtesy of Berlichtingen. Got skulled both times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted January 12, 2000 Share Posted January 12, 2000 Ok, I tried my idea on a real human being (actually, I'm not sure Bauhaus is human ). Worked like a charm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauhaus Posted January 12, 2000 Share Posted January 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Berlichtingen: Ok, I tried my idea on a real human being (actually, I'm not sure Bauhaus is human ). Worked like a charm... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, I'm an advanced (not too advanced, still want Berlichtingen to feel good about himself) form of Disney's Animatronics. I'm going to be a new display at It's a Small Mind....I mean It's a Small World. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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