Panzer General 3D Assault on my Intelligence

[kingtiger]

LL Cool J... eh humm.. I Mean Cool Col J,

Interesting comment. You and I have almost the exact same computers yet total opposite views on the addictive quality of PG or PG2. PG2 is the most addictive game I have ever played. Weird hey!

I have many FPS and usually play them only a short time. All high on the immersive scale and low on the addictive scale. I usually get close to the end, and stop cuz it is too hard or I'll cheat and destroy the challenge.

Some people complain about the ugo-igo me being one, but it isn't nearly as frustrating as save/reload/save/reload...found in FPS's.

Now for some additional findings in PG 3D Assault,

1) enemy units killed return near the final objectives in some form or another, actually kinda cool, but sorta annoying.

2) Setting the AI/setup to maximum player advantage still results in challenging campaign. Can't even win!

3) clicking on the screen while CPU side is playing will eliminate the movement and skip to next unit move. Speeds game along nicely.

4) Still can't quite figure out the leader thing and really that is an essential part of the game/campaign.

5) It is truly a challenging diversion and promises to engulf a lot of my time over the next couple months. Now I reiterate my apologies for having slammed PG 3D Assault. Gotta go again ... I must defeat the American war machine.. the time is now...Stand up and fite - the future of Germany is at stake.

Sincerely,

Richard Kalajian

[Brian Rock]

kingtiger:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

10-17-99:

This is the worst software purchase I have ever made... I am ripping the crap out this pig due to total lack of playability.

10-20-99:

PG2 is the most addictive game I have ever played... It is truly a challenging diversion and promises to engulf a lot of my time over the next couple months. Now I reiterate my apologies for having slammed PG 3D Assault. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL. I admire your openmindness and honesty. You've almost got me persuaded to give PG3D a go.

[OSCAR]

Just want to say that I'm quite sure that if you think PG3 is a great ride, CM will be the ride of you life guys. The PG series in my eyes don't even compete in the same league, and now that you seem to go for the 3D stuff, there's no doubt in my mind.

------------------

The HPS freak

[Guest KwazyDog]

*YAWN*. Oscar, no offense, but youve made it clear that from the little you know about CM that it is not your thing, and with the attitude you have towards it you are going to make sure it never is. Fair enough, I have no problems with that at all, thats your right.

Actually, I have things I dont like myself, basketball is an example. But you know what the funny thing is? I went to one basketball game, and didnt bother going again. I never watch it on TV and I never spend countless hours trying to tell people why Football is better than it.

So, why do you be a big boy and run along. Surely you have a life to live where ever you are. Mother must be wondering where you are. Your acting like a school kid try to stur trouble in the playground at lunch time. No one is biting, but it is getting tedious.....

[This message has been edited by KwazyDog (edited 10-20-99).]

[Guest John Pender]

Oscar is still here because deep down inside he is hooked on CM. Its ok Oscar admit it you like it only you dont want to admit it, come over on the home team its ok

[kingtiger]

Rock,

I know that PG 3D doesn't compete with CM. I think the only comparisons I can see are WAR, Game, WWII. Outside of that it simply a new War-Chess game for a few weeks or few months of fun. I would have to say that PG2 is and probably will be more addictive than PG 3D Assault.

Other stuff I found:

1) Nice Fog of war,

2) I did mention lack of playability, others have mentioned that same thing on the Club SSI board, however, after speaking with SSI, and learning some basics, the playability is fine.

3) Poorly coordinated overextended pushes are dealt with major devestation. Un ohh a similarity to CM. Actually, more of a similarity to Fionn's attack style.

I have been playing the Kesserling (spelling ?) campaign all night and watching the History channel. It is interesting in that the basic force is made up of some tanks, anti-tank, fighter, bomber, etc. Prior to starting each scenario in a campaign, you can swap out equipment 1:1 with other equipment and leaders. I like tanks and picked up Elephants, Nashorn, another Panther A, Stug IIIB and some BEER. Basically created an all-tank and arty chess match *(worked in PG2). Anyways, I can't get past the first scenario of six with any combination of equipment and infantry and leaders. I have even set the advantage fully in my favor and still take a very serious pounding. I am totally unable to take either of two objective cities. I hope this is not foreshadowing my upcoming CM experience.

I am glad I have the game. I wouldn't however say, "hey man...You gotta go out and buy this game". I had a void in my life that needed filling and it just so happened that this worked out. If you currently have lost interest in playing the same maps with the same scenarios for the same games (ala my experience), than I would have to say this is a good filler before CM.

Again, I gotta go. I stopped playing to read CM and drink soda and because my butt hurt from repeated whoopings. Now I have German war on TV and PG 3D on cue. Man life is good.

Suprisingly Pleased,

Richard Kalajian

[Pak40]

"C'mon, admit it - don't you have at least one dopey wargame that you like but are embarrassed to admit to? "

Brian,

I love risk and I also own Axis and Allies, they are fun games, but they don't pretend to be wargames such as Panzer General does. They are marketed as board games with war as the theme. They are more of a conquering game than a wargame and they are marketed as such.

PG tries to cater to the serious wargame crowd (as well as the general public) but abstracts war to such a level that it's just a joke of a wargame. This 3D BS is the latest proof that PG is trying to cater to mainstream gaming. The scale of PG is such that the 3D is totally useless and only put there as a catch phrase so that little johnny plops his $45 of hard earned cash on the sales counter.

[Dale H]

You all can do what you want but you might want to consider lightening up a little & having some fun. Yes, PG is advertised as a wargame & this may upset some grognards. You are welcome to stay away & poo-poo the game but you would be missing out on some fun. I believe there is enough strategic type thinking involved & it is certainly challenging enough. If you don't think so then try the Kesselring or Guderian campaigns & see how you do. I'm really looking foreward to Combat Mission and all the detail & realism involved but when I want to relax a little I don't see anything wrong about indulging in a Beer & Pretzels type of experience. And, I guarantee one thing: what will kill an endeavor like Combat Mission is a bunch of p.o.'ed grognards who peck the thing to death instead of relaxing & accepting that full reality isn't possible in any simulation & what is important is that they are just games and are for having fun. Just my opinion.

Dale

[Guest Big Time Software]

I know this is total heresy, and don't get scared that I've been influenced by it in my design for CM because I haven't, but I enjoyed the first PG.

I repeat, the first one.

I say that because I think they've sequeled the thing to death. I'm sure PG3D is a decent game, but is it really that different from the first one? The second one? Fantasy General? Space General? Sequel General? Massmarketing General? Capitalist General? WeHaveRunOutOfNewIdeas General?

C'mon SSI. The original PG was a good game. Very simple, OK, but still fun for what it was. And doing sequels is fine, but I say give people their money's worth. Just repeating the same game over and over with a little more eye candy each time is... tiresome.

Just my two cents.

Charles

[Mike D]

Charles,

I ditto your comments above. PG1 was a good general wargame and a heck of a lot of fun. But all that came after it in terms of it's sequels added little to the original. Ergo, I never bought any of the rest of them. The "unfortunate" thing is that a lot of people do buy sequels that are really nothing better than an agrandized version of the original. But to each his own. If folks want to plop down $40 or so of their hard earned money on such things, then let them. I for one certainly won't. But if nothing else it does tend to support the wargaming industry and keep it going. The downside to this is that people buying into the sequels simply perpetuate the game companies continuing to release them! Which is why I'm glad to hear that you don't believe in doing such things here at BTS. So while I'm sure CM2 will use much of the code of the CM1, I also expect a fair number of improvements and additions to the game as well. Things which I'm sure by your's and Steve's comments here on the board will happen.

Mike D

aka Mikester

[swamp]

well I have to defend the pg series, pgI was fun, pgII was awesome on tcp/ip, at first it was really buggy but when they moved to mplayer it was great, I must have played the 4 player scenario flagB hundreds of times, I agree with kingtiger that its like chess, but thats great, what pgII had that was cool is leagues, which I don't see any for CM which disappoints me, but maybe these won't be practical until tcp/ip play? also pgII had 3 and 4 player scens, and team player tournaments, as cool as CM is the ladders are just boring...

these are my thoughts.

are there gonna be any leagues once tcp/ip comes out, if so could I get on the roster, I'm 15-1-1 in pbem play.

[Lee]

I would love to see Panzer General II redone by BTS, with improvements

in combat resolution, more unit types and a removing of all historical

accuracy flaws. That would be one fun strategic wargame.

Even if a bit on the simplistic side. I like the graphics in PG II, the

terrain and tanks look great.

[Guest Der Unbekannte Jäger]

I will freely admit that I like the original Panzer General, and I loved Panzer General2, Peoples General was okay and IMO the rest were forgettable.

The fact of the matter is you cannot compare an awesome product like Combat Mission to the likes of another great product such as Panzer General. Besides for one thing the scale is completly different in each game and the next thing is that the combat is completly different. PG is a "light" Strategic wargame. CM is tactical.

But in all honestly I couldnt stand PG 3D Assault... number one and two were fun and light... number three just doesnt have it anymore.

[Aussie Smith]

Wow

I'm surprised no one has taken the time to mention Panzer Commander in this thread.

Now there was a game I really looked forward to getting - The chance to command a platoon of Panthers - to fire the gun myself - to play in a 3D world - there was going to be a game - and then I bought it - oh man I cannot tell you my disappointment. The models looked crap - the interiors of the tanks looked more spacious than a luxury car and the gun sight! Looking through a toilet roll gives a better effect - and the 3D world well 3D Lego land was more like it.

And above it all it was as buggy as all get out - 4 patches just to let the game play give some sort of challenge - needless to say SSI releases are treated with trepidation by me - the old "will I regret this purchase" enters my mind as my heart says "give em another chance" - and lucky it did lest I would not have purchased Fighting Steel which I do enjoy.

Thank the maker for CM - I hope that when Charles goes down the sequel path he remembers his words (and I do trust ya Charles ) and that CM and its follow ons evolve and not just provide newer eye candy.

Craig

[Mr. W W]

My 2 cents.

Panzer General was the game that hooked me on computer games. I was able to rent it when I got my 1st CDROM and I went 48 hours without sleep just to get every moment out of it. Panzer General 2 was a great game, but not quite as enthralling as the origional, at least for me.

My brother bought me PG3D for Christmas and I played it for around a month, but it just wasn't the same for me. I think the Campaign series and TOAOW had pretty much ruined me for PG style games, although I will go back and play PG on my old DOS rig (along with Steel Panthers...) and I still get caught up in it.

CM however is, for me at least, an entirely different type of game. Yes it's a Wargame, but it is something more than that. I get truly emotionally involved in a given scenario - I honestly feel "bad" when I lose a squad or a AFV due to my own carelessness. In other games I pretty much just chalk it up to the fortunes of war, but in CM...I don't know: it just matters more.

So there.

[Stuka]

He He, I bought Panzer Commander for $10 out of the trading post only weeks after it was released so the owner must have also been less than pleased with it. However I played it heaps probably because it was the only game along the lines of what I was looking for, although no infantry, mines, arty, barbed wire etc. All this makes CM the ultimate wargame for me, combining all that I was looking for in one game.....

(Now that Panzer commander icon is gathering dust on my desktop and is probably not much longer for this world )

[Guest Mr. Johnson-<THC>-]

thank you Jon