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What's in a name


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rwcanuk said:

I guess if the war went on we might have seen the name Cheetah as some sort of fast super tank

Either that, or the Cheetah would be an ultra-heavily armored behemoth with a top speed of about 15 mph...

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Questions, comments, arguments, refutations, criticisms, and/or sea stories?

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Guest Zigster

I almost forgot the elephant and the rhinoceros.

I don't know the origin of the names, but a perusal of the list leaves a clue. All of the named vehicles were designed and constructed after the war began (even those based on pre-war designs or concepts). The PzKw IV was the last pre-war designed tank. Probably a security/secrecy thing.

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Something about German AFV names that has been bothering me.

Why are, when someone is writing in English, are the Panther, Tiger, and occasionally the Lynx written in English, but all the other German AFVs written in German?

Panther, Tiger, Lynx

but

Marder, Hetzer, Brummbaur, Wespe, Hummel, Grille, etc.

Anybody have a clue?

Jason

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by guachi:

Something about German AFV names that has been bothering me.

Why are, when someone is writing in English, are the Panther, Tiger, and occasionally the Lynx written in English, but all the other German AFVs written in German?

Panther, Tiger, Lynx

but

Marder, Hetzer, Brummbaur, Wespe, Hummel, Grille, etc.

Anybody have a clue?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Panther and Tiger are the German words. I don't recall ever seeing the Luchs called Lynx until this board. One other thing... its Brummbär smile.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Why are, when someone is writing in English, are the Panther, Tiger, and occasionally the Lynx written in English, but all the other German AFVs written in German?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Panther and Tiger I think are the same in German as English. Lynx is Luchs, however, which to English ears sounds more like you're getting ready to spit, so I can see them translating that one.

My own personal favorite AFV name is Hetzer, and this just doesn't sound as cool when translated into English.

It's kinda like that Brit plane, the Spitfire. Cool-sounding name, eh? You can really picture the name being appropriate as the 8 MGs flicker on the wing. But the original name suggested by the designer was Shrew. While these are certainly ferocious animals, they're pretty small and the name doesn't sound cool anyway. So somebody took another meaning for "shrew" (as in "The Taming of the..") and substituted a cool-sounding synonym. The rest is history. But I keep waiting for some women's rights group to try to get the name banned, because the double meaning in use here is "bitch" biggrin.gif

-Bullethead

[This message has been edited by Bullethead (edited 01-21-2000).]

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Guest Zigster

I prefer the translations for those words where the original German is hard to get my tongue around.

Luchs is an easy one, but it's a nasty sound in English -- sorta reminiscent of tossin' a loogie. Lynx sounds much more cool.

Same for the Wespe -- if it's pronounced right, it sounds like a small Italian scooter with a model airplane engine in it, so I stick with Wasp at least in conversation.

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You know, I could have just gotten off my lazy ass and walked across the street to Barnes & Noble and looked in a German-English dictionary. smile.gif

It never occurred to me that the names were the same. I thought maybe it was because they were the most well-known, or something.

Jason

Isn't the small Italian scooter the Vespa?

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Those which have German names in habitual use are ones which aren't that impressive if translated.

E.g. " Bumble Bee", "Ambusher" "Grizzly Bear" etc aren't "cool". wink.gif

BTW 1 picture request to the first person to give me the rough specifications of the Cheetah and 1 more picture request to the first person who came up with the specifications for this AFV

Yes, Cheetah was the name proposed for a German MBT (they liked their wild cats wink.gif ).

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Fionn Kelly

Manager of Historical Research,

The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers

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Flakpanzer 38(t) Ausf L Gepard / Sd.Kfz. 140

-Panzerkampfwagen 38 fur 2cm Flak 38.

140 produced between November 1943 and February 1944

1 Converted Nov 1943

Model: Ausfuhrung A

Weight: 9400kg

Crew: 4 men

Engine: Praga EPA / 6-cylinder / 125hp Speed: Road 42km/h

Cross-Country 15km/h

Range: Road 250km

Cross-Country 160km

Lenght: 4.60m

Width: 2.12m

Height: 2.40m

Armament: Single 20mm Flak 38 L/112.5 gun (or possibly 20mm Flak 30 in some vehicles)

Ammo: 1040 Rounds. 360 HE tracer, 360 HE, 320 AP

Armor: 8-25mm

Model: Ausfuhrung G

Weight: 9850kg

Crew: 4 men

Engine: Praga EPA / 6-cylinder / 125hp

Speed: Road 42km/h, Cross-Country 15km/h

Range: Road 250km, Cross-Country 160km

Lenght: 4.61m

Width: 2.14m

Height: 2.40m

Armament: Single 20mm Flak 38 L/112.5 gun (or possibly 20mm Flak 30 in some vehicles)

Ammo: 1040 Rounds. 360 HE tracer, 360 HE, 320 AP

Armor: 8-50mm

Conflicting sources it seems...

M.

[This message has been edited by Mattias (edited 01-22-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Mattias (edited 01-22-2000).]

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Guest Zigster

The name Leopard was also given to the next series of recce tanks based on the Pz II after the Lynx. None were ever produced. The turret of the Leopard eventually went into production on the Puma armoured car.

Bumblebee and Grizzly Bear not cool? I beg to differ... biggrin.gif

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Mattias,

I didn't notice any question previously.. Check your previous post wink.gif. I was puzzled why you gave all those details but figured I was just missing something.

Personally I don't see what you mean by conflicting.. I don't see any conflict there..

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___________

Fionn Kelly

Manager of Historical Research,

The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers

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