Xyphorus Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 I do not post very often on this board, but today will be the exception. I certainly have a thick skin but too much is too much. I just read Raze's thread and this question came to mind: Why is this ok on this board to provoke or insult some nationalities, but yet perfectly inappropriate to do the same for others? Openly bashing Italians, French or even Arabs is ok, but citizens of the US, Israelis, etc... is a big "can't do that." I have been leaving in few foreign countries and always respected their customs and national prides, not because of PCness but by common sense. For crying out loud even Madmatt one time publicly stated his disgust of the French prior to his trip to Germany. What is the purpose of doing it; to have the French going to their forum, the Italians to their own and such, so that English speaking fellows can stay together and congratulate one another. Quite a plan! You people sometimes baffle me! Have a great life, Karl PS: Madmatt, I do have a lot of respect for you and your work, and do not want to pick a fight with you. I just want to keep the record straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 Frankly, it baffles me, particularly the French. What did they ever do to the US (apart from help them win their independence)? I think most of it begins as good natured jesting, but it does get out of hand. ------------------ Is "patheti-sad" a word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawyer Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 If this were a food and wine site dealing with excellent cuisine, I'm sure the French and Italians would be ranked tops and treated with great deference, while the Germans, US, and Great Britain (most certainly England) would be the butt of many jokes. But this is a site dealing mainly with excellence in combat in WWII. Que sera sera. ------------------ Only the Lawyer knows what Evil lurks in the minds of men.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 I see the US vs. Canada portion as jest between good friends. No other two nations have ever had such a good relation over such a long period in history. There are tensions, but, they are only trivial. Regarding French and Italian bashing, I see this mostly as playing off a historical military myth. It also is in jest. We are all aware that the French were a little apprehensive about going to war in 1939 after suffereing the greatest proportion in relation to their population of losses in the 1914-1918 war. They also didn't always surrender once the Germans came in sight. In fact, even the breakout in Sedan was only due to the Luftwaffe intervening. The Italians performed some brilliant actions as well, even though they were suffering from lack of equipment (modern and obsolete) and poor relations between officers and soldiers. Stick any nationality in France and Italy's place in 1939 and you probably will not get very different results. Unfortuantely it is just popular misconceptions that make up these remarks. As Babra said, it all starts in good natured jest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 It's a question of phrasing. Often when people say, "the French", they mean, or should say, "the French government/king/parliament/generals" or whatever the context is. On the other hand, a large portion of the German population voted for Adolf Hitler, so perhaps "the Germans" is more apt in that case, but even so, not many would have voted in extremists in Germany post 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 I'll relate an interesting observation. Back around 92-93 I was in germany attending their parachute school on a military exchange. One a Sunday off we went up to Kaltenburg (IIRC) to this mideival festival which goes on for like a week straight. The inetresting thing for me was the knights jousting and contest. Obviously this was all reenacting and was as choreographed as any World Wrestling federation event. (and the crowd acted about the same too) There were fiive or six knights: Black German Knight White German Knight Polish Knight English knight Jewish Knight Italian Knight Russian Knight Anyways they all went through a series of Knighly evolutions from horsemanship, mounted sword, lance and arrow target drills etc and the ultimate being a joust/fight off until one guy was left to claim the title. I noticed all the Knights were treated with deference and respect except the Italian knight which was sort of portrayed as a bumbling idiot, and was the butt of the crowds derision and laughter. The Russian knight was the elast liked and was quicly dispatched in early fighting. Even more interesting was the Black German knight. This guys was clearly the crowd's favorite. As the events progressed he became more unruly and violent during the competition, cheating, getting in cheap shots on other knights and basically got so out of control that it took a combined effort of all the other Knights to defeat him. Finally it was the White German Knight that killed him off in single combat, taking the prize and restoring the honor to the event. No I know I was porbbaly reading to much into this spectacle but damn if that Black Knight was the good old fashioned german, clad in SS black, clearly the best fighter of all the European Knights, kicking ass and taking names and could only be defeated by the rest of Europe banding together to bring him down. And what about that Italian, the crowd also had heartfelt and deep seated feelings about his martial prowess too? Same with the Russian Knight. The English and the Polish knights were protrayed as honorable and were well received, but I guess the Jewish Knight was in their for political correctness or what? And the white German knight obviously the hero and good guy. It just seemed to me that that was exactly the message which was being protrayed and for damn sure that's how the crowd was feeding into it. Anyways... that day always stuck with me. Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 I don't really consider any nationality a problem. But what I do have a problem with is ecomony styles. I have an extreme problem with Socialism, not to mention Communism. Socialism is the sufficating of its people by giving them free this and that with nothing to back it and then jacking the prices up on everything else so that the free stuff can be free. You know the reason they pay around $4.00 for a gallon of gas (3+ liters/gallon). They're paying for Joe Smoes heart medication. Giving free money to people for just having children is a great way to lower the currency value. ------------------ "Live by the sword, live a good LONG life!"-Minsc, BGII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Los: I'll relate an interesting observation. Back around 92-93 I was in germany attending their parachute school on a military exchange. One a Sunday off we went up to Kaltenburg (IIRC) to this mideival festival which goes on for like a week straight. The inetresting thing for me was the knights jousting and contest. Obviously this was all reenacting and was as choreographed as any World Wrestling federation event. (and the crowd acted about the same too) There were fiive or six knights: Black German Knight White German Knight Polish Knight English knight Jewish Knight Italian Knight Russian Knight Anyways they all went through a series of Knighly evolutions from horsemanship, mounted sword, lance and arrow target drills etc and the ultimate being a joust/fight off until one guy was left to claim the title. I noticed all the Knights were treated with deference and respect except the Italian knight which was sort of portrayed as a bumbling idiot, and was the butt of the crowds derision and laughter. The Russian knight was the elast liked and was quicly dispatched in early fighting. Even more interesting was the Black German knight. This guys was clearly the crowd's favorite. As the events progressed he became more unruly and violent during the competition, cheating, getting in cheap shots on other knights and basically got so out of control that it took a combined effort of all the other Knights to defeat him. Finally it was the White German Knight that killed him off in single combat, taking the prize and restoring the honor to the event. No I know I was porbbaly reading to much into this spectacle but damn if that Black Knight was the good old fashioned german, clad in SS black, clearly the best fighter of all the European Knights, kicking ass and taking names and could only be defeated by the rest of Europe banding together to bring him down. And what about that Italian, the crowd also had heartfelt and deep seated feelings about his martial prowess too? Same with the Russian Knight. The English and the Polish knights were protrayed as honorable and were well received, but I guess the Jewish Knight was in their for political correctness or what? And the white German knight obviously the hero and good guy. It just seemed to me that that was exactly the message which was being protrayed and for damn sure that's how the crowd was feeding into it. Anyways... that day always stuck with me. Los<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ummmhhh... There is not French Knight? That could be read in more than a few ways... I think is to avoid some really nasty hates arise in the public... But could be another reason... Ariel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 There may have been a French knight, this was years ago and it's hard for me to remember all the details. If there was he wasn't singled out for any special feelings one way or another that stuck in my memory.. Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raze Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 "I think most of it begins as good natured jesting". That is EXACTLY what my intention was. (Actually my friends joke while I was playing so I'd thought I'd post it). I thought it was funny. I even threw a smiley so people would understand the context. My apologies to anyone who was hurt or offended by the 30 posts afterward. I guess that its possible that any attempt at humor can go awry.... ------------------ "The art of fighting without fighting..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maximus: I don't really consider any nationality a problem. But what I do have a problem with is ecomony styles. I have an extreme problem with Socialism, not to mention Communism. Socialism is the sufficating of its people by giving them free this and that with nothing to back it and then jacking the prices up on everything else so that the free stuff can be free. You know the reason they pay around $4.00 for a gallon of gas (3+ liters/gallon). They're paying for Joe Smoes heart medication. Giving free money to people for just having children is a great way to lower the currency value. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Maximus - that's not really the point of socialism, nor are the specific examples you site exclusive to socialist countries. For example, gas is quite expensive in England as compared to America, and England isn't what I'd call a socialist nation (although some Tories do). Most (if not all) Western nations these days are social democracies, which attempt to incorporate ideas from both socialism and capitalism. They differ in their specifics, but the general ideology is the same. There certainly aren't any pure free-market capitalist democracies around anymore. ------------------ Soy super bien soy super super bien soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Canuck Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 FORZA ITALIA!!!! Why do people always have to make fun of the little Italian? Va ********** Just Kidding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 Socialism, in a pure form, just like Capitalism in a pure form, it works only in theory. Theoretically each have good poits, but, severely suffer in other areas. Pure socialism where all work is considered equal will result in stagnation, as there would be no reason to improve ones self or take on a difficult chore. Pure capitalism ignores the fact that hard work by itself cannot guarantee success, and it is virtually impossible for the poor or disadvantaged to improve themselves. Like Andreas said, most Western societies are a mixed Capitalist-Socialist blend where the benefits of both, plus some negative aspects, are present. The extreme of both are worthless, but, together they result in a powerful and secure society. Pure socialism failed after the Russian revolution in 1922, and pure capitalism failed after the Stock Market crash of 1929. My mother is Italian, and the worst thing she could have done (in regards to her family and community) was to marry a German (marrying an Englishman was pretty bad, but, not that bad . So, I guess it goes both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntg84 Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lawyer: If this were a food and wine site dealing with excellent cuisine, I'm sure the French and Italians would be ranked tops and treated with great deference, while the Germans, US, and Great Britain (most certainly England) would be the butt of many jokes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> USA has Bobby Flay and Emeril. They are probably the top two chefs in the world. And German food is excellent, but for England, well no comment. (Ooops I just bashed England, sorry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted December 31, 2000 Share Posted December 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Major Tom: My mother is Italian, and the worst thing she could have done (in regards to her family and community) was to marry a German (marrying an Englishman was pretty bad, but, not that bad . So, I guess it goes both ways.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> For some reason, that reminds me of a story that a friend of mine told me. For a while during the 1950s he lived in a small village in northern Italy. There was an old woman there who said in his presence once, "I was here in 1917 when the Germans came through. I was here in 1943 when the Germans came through. If the Germans come through again, I'm killing myself!" No record on how she made out with the flood of affluent German tourists... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted December 31, 2000 Share Posted December 31, 2000 I think most of the history of Italian-German antagonism was due to the occupation of most of the North of Italy by Austria for a few hundred years. The two world wars were only just antagonizing an existing problem. This is also one of the reasons that the Italians didn't perform very well during WWII. They were allied with their historic enemies (Germany) and enemies with their historic allies (Britain and France). The Italian population just wasn't 'into' the war like other nationalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted December 31, 2000 Share Posted December 31, 2000 " For crying out loud even Madmatt one time publicly stated his disgust of the French prior to his trip to Germany." Actually two things to consider with that statement. #1 I am pretty sure I said this *after* spending two different days stuck in the worlds worst run ,IMHO, airport Charles De Gaule. #2 I was also, at the time, NOT employed by Battlefront.com and that HAS changed my posting style. I accept that my remarks were probably undeserved to the French poeple at the time and spoken out of frustration with my travel delays. Even so, I have tried in the time since my new employment, to be more open minded and respectful of people from all nationalities. Now, all that aside, I agree with the intent of Xyphorus's post. Racial and Nationality intolerance is NOT accepted here and when found will be dealt with far more harshly than before. If you think it's okay to rant about how Nation A is so much better than Nation B then we will think it's okay to ban your intolerant moronic asses without so much as a warning. No, this ISN'T political correctness. That's what they had in Germany in 1936. This is our desire to keep this forum at least somewhat on-topic and allow for people from all across the globe to come here and read about Combat Mission without seeing their nations flag and pride torn and tattered in some half-witted virtual assault. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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