Holien Posted October 26, 2000 Share Posted October 26, 2000 Well please don't shoot me down in flames but last night I found something that annoyed me. (Well a little). I had sneaked a commander into a good viewing position (hidden from view) and got a 2inch mortar behind him in command radius. The target was two lovely AT guns close to one another and a Wespe just behind them, all ideal mortar fodder. I watched the minute unfold expecting mass death and destruction of these targets. But the mortar team only let loose three rounds. What had happened? Well after some investigation I found the cause. I had sneaked another platoon comander within command range, he had nicked command of the mortar and because he could not see the target so the mortar stopped firing. Well I can guess at the arguments which will come this way, the main one is that the other commander over ruled the one who had real need of the asset. I know this happens and I will live with it. Just to let people know this can happen and you need to beware of it. Also you need to beware of retargeting your Arty as once done you can not undo it back to where it was due to fall. I made the mistake of clicking the wrong button when I was seeing where I could re target too. Anyway is there any other features like this that people should know? As for the game it is great and while annoyed that I failed to destroy his closely packed AT guns and Wespe I will ensure that my commander who nicked the mortar is placed out of distance from the crew. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted October 26, 2000 Share Posted October 26, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Holien: (1)I had sneaked another platoon comander within command range, he had nicked command of the mortar and because he could not see the target so the mortar stopped firing. ... (2)Also you need to beware of retargeting your Arty as once done you can not undo it back to where it was due to fall.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> 1) I'm not too impressed with this feature either. IMO all units should be subordinated to a specified HQ, i.e. a strict chain of command. (Applicable also to vehicles.) 2) This is actually not much of a problem with the latest version. Last night in a QB I had my spotter cancel an on-going barrage, later during that order face I decided I wanted the arty on another location and set this as a new target. Result; adjusted fire, ETA 13 sec... Moving the target point back and forth a couple of times will increase the response time, but that's more than fine with me. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Peace Posted October 26, 2000 Share Posted October 26, 2000 Holien, I agree this feature is annoying. They should allow you to "assign" mortars to specific commanders. WArren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted October 26, 2000 Share Posted October 26, 2000 Agreed on the commander switch. I'm constantly getting bitten by this behavior. I try my best to avoid it, but it always seems to happen anyway. I've lived with it, but it sure would be nice to have something done about it. Click on the asset and have a new command "assign", then you click on the HQ unit. From then on its attached and if out of range, its out of command. Currently, a passing platoon and woops, there goes the chain of command. The original commander runs back and screams at the mortar crew, who then change back. The platoon commander approaches closer, and they switch again. Its like, who ever screams the loudest (is closest) gets the asset. Thanks for bringing this up. I've just lived with it and accepted it. But it truly would be nice to have something done about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted October 26, 2000 Share Posted October 26, 2000 No, not about to shoot you down in a flame war. I'm one of those who believes that finding something disagreeable with CM, does not mean it is "not" the best wargame ever done on a PC, and vice versa, that the fact that it is the best done game, does not mean it cannot be improved. I too find that having units attached to a singular chain of command is not only annoying but unrealistic. Now, I could buy into a reduction in leadership value to units that were not originally subordinate to Commander (a), when finding themselves under Commander (, but never-the-less, it is, IMO a tad unrealistic to presume that a unit separated from it's original CoC, and thereby suffering a morale drop would not receive a morale boost by coming into the radius of another Command unit. As I said, I'll buy into a reduced morale, but the way it is currently set up in CM is not totally realistic. So then the question becomes, are we asking too much? Maybe, I won't debate that if someone wants to toss it back at me. But hey, striving for realism is what brought us CM in the first place. I vote for a continuance of that philosophy. ------------------ "Wer zuerst schiesst hat mehr von Leben" Moto-(3./JG11 "Graf") Bruno Weiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadayne Posted October 26, 2000 Share Posted October 26, 2000 all good points. I'd also like to add a niggle or two: 1. when setting up a quick battle, if you make a mistake with your parameters or unit set up, you can't simply "go back" without finishing the entire process (including waiting for the graphics to load, etc.) and pressing abort. It would be nice if you could "go back" at any point in the process. 2. my choose scenario screen is getting a bit crowded with scenarios, saved games, versions of scenarios in progress, etc. I'd like to have that better organized somehow. Maybe make the saved games a seperate screen from scenarios, or at least put dates or game turns on the saved games so I can tell them all apart. Neither of these are serious gripes, just things that i've found a bit annoying (while we're on the subject). ------------------ "I'm the Quarterback. I make the plays. You back the plays I make." -Harvey Keitel to his adopted son in the movie "Dusk til Dawn" (about 3 hours before they're both ripped apart and eaten alive by vampires) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted October 26, 2000 Share Posted October 26, 2000 Bruno, I don't mind the current method for squads. If their HQ is knocked out or out range, they get no leadership bonuses. They still fight, they are delayed and more likely to run. I don't know if I want the ability to reassign the infantry squadrons to new commanders. Some would unrealistically abuse this, by finding their best commander and assigning as much as possible to him. Hmmm... But the mortar teams have a capability of indirect fire using a HQ unit it is currently assigned (closest) to. You manuever to take advantage of indirect fire and then BAM, the chain of command changes for the mortar unit, which ruins your planned bombardment. Its these "closest HQ" units I find any issue with. I know one can be very careful to avoid this, but I for one keep stumbling into it and it can get annoying. Its still workable as is and it is the best wargame ever, so I'm not going to rant and rave. Just wimper a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted October 26, 2000 Share Posted October 26, 2000 Oh, okay Holien. I did misunderstand your particulars. But the topic was inviting. Still, there is a way to circumvent what you appropriately pointed out as a possible abuse of Commander assignments. Basically, I'd envision CM acting essentially the same as it does now, in that one could "not" manually assign units to Commanders. But, once a unit was out of command range due to a Commander being eliminated, then upon reentering a command radius that unit would then receive a slight increase to their previously reduced morale. I suppose though, some bright young lad would or could murder their own Commander with friendly fire in order to achieve a better Commander. TADA! We've just struck upon an excellent reason to include MP units. (I can just see the little buggers moving into an area, arresting and handcuffing a squad, and taking them away in a truck). I knew something was missing... Anyway, ergo the slight, maybe even "very" slight, regain in morale in this situation. I agree with you about the mortar problem also. ------------------ "Wer zuerst schiesst hat mehr von Leben" Moto-(3./JG11 "Graf") Bruno Weiss [This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 10-26-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhammer Posted October 26, 2000 Share Posted October 26, 2000 This may be true for other nations, but American 60 mm mortar teams could be directed by anyone that knew how, something I would like to see simulated with squad leaders, which are, of course, embeds in the squads. As for the "always kiss ass to the highest up" command annoyance, I dislike it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralsaw Posted October 26, 2000 Share Posted October 26, 2000 A small thing that p&sses me off in QBs is the "troop parade", i.e. the initial arrangement in a straight line across the whooole of the map's width. It has been brought up before and it's no big deal to merge the platoons together, but can't the darn AI do that for me? ------------------ My squads are regular, must be the fibre in the musli... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted October 27, 2000 Author Share Posted October 27, 2000 Well just a small postscript I managed to bring the mortar back into command and fire off the last of it's rounds. They all fell on the targets and even got a direct hit on the Wespe to NO EFFECT what so ever. Damn it should have been a 3 inch, then he would have suffered... H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knaust Posted October 27, 2000 Share Posted October 27, 2000 hey buddy...are you unlucky also with other guys than me??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suicides-by-Steve Posted October 27, 2000 Share Posted October 27, 2000 Know what really gets me? Try moving a column of armour while it's pissing rain out, therefore forcing you to take the roads only. Now try moving 10-15 different units up the same road. It becomes a logistical nightmare... ------------------ "Childhood's over the moment you know you're going to die." -The Crow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degrees of Frost Posted October 27, 2000 Share Posted October 27, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Suicides-by-Steve: Know what really gets me? Try moving a column of armour while it's pissing rain out, therefore forcing you to take the roads only. Now try moving 10-15 different units up the same road. It becomes a logistical nightmare... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> well, thats probably pretty realistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tero Posted October 27, 2000 Share Posted October 27, 2000 You get a delay of 3 minutes for the FO to get the fire mission going. Just when the enemy is in the zone and when there is less than 1 minute left the FO's get jumped by enemy infantry. They switch to small arms and survive with a little help from nearby friendlies BUT they ****can the arty fire mission in the process. Back to 3 minute delay.... AAARRRGHHH ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted October 27, 2000 Share Posted October 27, 2000 "I'm not too impressed with this feature either. IMO all units should be subordinated to a specified HQ, i.e. a strict chain of command." All infantry squads have ONE platoon HQ but can also be attached to the comapny or bn commander. But weapons teams can be attached to any of the company's platoon HQ. It should be like this. If you want to station a company HMG team with a platoon guarding the right flank. Under the above poster's scenario, the HMG will be out of C&C since it's not with it's own HQ. Company weapons teams normally didn't operate like that for real and shouldn't operate like that in CM. You need to be able to task organize those company assetts down to the platoons as situation dictates. [This message has been edited by Los (edited 10-27-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted October 27, 2000 Author Share Posted October 27, 2000 Knaust no-one can have as much luck as you!!! 1. You are retired and can the game all day apart from your wife reminding you of the realities of Life. 2. You are Italian and have decent weather (think of us poor Brits!!!) 3. You have cheap wine and beer and some decent pizzas. 4. In our latest game all of the things that did not happen for me have gone well for you. a. The plane shows up on Q. b. Zooka hits 1st time and takes my nice big Panther to the BBQ. c. Your 57mm RR actually fires and hits the stug killing the cmdr. d. Your mortars survie to destroy my 88's. e. You charge the hill knowing that my inital forces are crap and can not hold it. f. Your 50 cal takes out my A/c at 600 plus meters. But apart from all that you have been pretty unlucky. I am hanging on in and I hope my meagre forces can get some luck and get my damn hill back. We after all need it for a new Villa away from the river to avoid global warming. I look forward to the next few turns, your a star.... H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suicides-by-Steve Posted October 27, 2000 Share Posted October 27, 2000 [font color=red]"well, thats probably pretty realistic"[/red] Sorry Degrees of Frost I should have clarified a bit better. Try setting up a mixed vehicle assortment on a road, now watch as all the different speeds of all the different vehicles don't coincide with one another. In no time flat, you'll have a bottleneck of armour. Haven't your drivers every heard of something called brakes?! In CM, there is no FOLLOW command (which is sorely needed). ------------------ "Childhood's over the moment you know you're going to die." -The Crow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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