Challenge to all with CM!

[MrPeng]

Fionn. I wasn't dissin you calling you "Fiona." Its just something I do. No offense meant and I hope none taken.

Lewis, I do not *like* you so have no desire to play against you.

Peng

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I'm talking and I can't shut up!

[argie]

Sorry, Rich.

Do you know that after WWII the English uses the German concentration camps to "lodge" the Jews which were recently liberated, only to avoid them reach Palestine?... They even do a nice new camp in Chipre to erradicate the ones that already reach Palestine...

Well, as argentinian, I could be a bit biased against England, but facts are facts.

OTOH, I can't wait to have some Crocodiles in my little hands to toast some Nazis...

Nobody is free from prejudice...

Ariel

[Manx]

What is all this ****!!...is it "lets have bash at the English" Day or something?

[Major B]

Hmmm, when it comes to games, the only prejudice I have ever noticed in myself involved Tie-Fighter. I just couldn't enjoy flying for the Empire. Not to make light of anybody elses feelings, as being in America, and having been born in 1974, I haven't really had the chance to develop a hatred towards any other nation. Granted, I still haven't met a nice French person, but I am sure they are out there.

[Naja]

Originally posted by Fionn:Challenge to all with CM! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Well, I'm Irish and prefer not to play as the British, especially the Parachute Regiment.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>As for Lusername, quite trying to get yourself banned so you can act like a martyr, and take your little tiff with Peng

somewhere else please.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Yes Lewis, it seems that proving yourself to others is REALLY important to you. Could it be anything to do with the

fact that on the net you get to act big and tough while in your home life you live on welfare and do nothing and thus

feel the need to "prove" yourself to yourself ( since I'm quite sure no-one here really gives a damn) ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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"Postorbital ridge hurting. Not good with words. Must use threats, hurt feelings, like at playground. Mad at person. Angry!!!! Can't hit, so ban good idea but want to hit but can't. So play war game - but might lose, so better to ban. Need air so go to cliffs of Moher. Better yet, sit down with Jack then think more clear." Not very cool (reminds me of the ruffians in Ireland who couldn't tell the difference between the Hawaiian flag and the Union Jack. Fione, I had to chucke at someone from Ireland berating another person for being on the dole. The last headline I remember from Ireland that got many a good laugh was that Ireland let 19 or so Chinese immigrants into the country quoting that "they work on Sundays.....and have good take out..." I often reflect on the news story and wonder what the headlines read now. Sometimes being on an island is nice; I know I miss seeing all the different faces and cultures the simple people have it easy.)

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Originally posted by MrPeng: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>DAMMIT Lewis!

first you go and post a fine humorous thingy directed at me and then you go and do a dumb thing like take a cheap

shot at Fionn. when the HELL will you get a grip? Fiona is a sacred cow and I am a d-bag. can you make such

discriminations? One is not above teasing or taunting, but you had better be very clear it is such, the other one can

bash at will for no good reason and with malice aforethought and not bat an eye...when will you get that through your

adle-pated mind?

Peng...a drunken fart...I drink therefore I am.

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I'm talking and I can't shut up!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Very cool and insightful Mr Peng

[rich12545]

Sorry, Rich.

Do you know that after WWII the English uses the German concentration camps to "lodge" the Jews

That's interesting. No, I wasn't aware of that although the British certainly sided with the arabs prior to Israel's independence in 1948.

And I'm not the one who started this pissing match. I mentioned my feelings about the palestinians and Fionn jumped all over me saying what nice people they were and calling me prejudiced. I was ready to let that go. Until he brought up his dislike for Brits. Seemed very hypocritical of him to call someone else prejudiced when he held prejudices of his own.

[rich12545]

many people in the world regard the Palestinians as victims not aggressors. They maybe wrong and gawd knows I get sick of people misunderstanding Irish history so I hope you could illuminate me further.

Glad to.

The palestinians are victims - of the arab leaders. Back in 1948, when Israel became a state, all the arab countries got together to push this new Jewish country into the sea. They told the arabs living in Israel to leave their land in order to make it easier for them to accomplish their task. Well, things didn't work out as planned and these people became displaced in camps after the war. The Israelis figured they abandoned their property and took it (those arabs who didn't flee kept their land). The arab leaders wouldn't allow these people into their countries and decided to use them as pawns against Israel by leaving them in the camps. This strategy worked very well as the "palestinians" have been a thorn in Israel's side ever since.

The palestinians say they want a homeland. I say give them one. How about Sinai?

[dumbo]

Rich & Argie: Actually I didnt know about this incident either although I find it hard to beleive the Brits ran concentration camps for jews after ww2 in the same manner as under the 3rd reich. Possibly they were used to house & feed them until final refugee status was confirmed? I dunno some more info would be appreciated argie if ya have it.

BTW Rich as for Palestine after ww2 as far as I am aware the british attitude to the area was "get the hell out as everyone is killing us". Isreali & Arab terror units were killing british troops on a routine basis. I believe the British government was generally pro arab until suez after which they had a major rethink 8)

By the way rich can you do me a favour and explain how the Jewish dispora happened? IE: How come the jewish people ended up being scattered away from Isreal/ Palestine in the first place? I have never got a straight answer on this one. If you could fill me in I would appreciate it (by email if the thread gets locked would be great.)

(by the way thanks for your views on palestine above, post ww2, interesting stuff)

Cheers man

_dumbo

[This message has been edited by dumbo (edited 06-25-2000).]

[Manx]

Yes the Allies DID use camps to house not only Jews but millions of homeless German civilians and soldiers flooding into the west Germany desperate to avoid being trapped by the Russians, after the end of the war. Remember that almost every village, town and city lay in ruins. There was no food, millions of people homeless and these camps were used to temporarily house these "refugees" so provisions could be made to re-house and feed them. Hardly "concentration" camps i think!.

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[rich12545]

By the way rich can you do me a favour and explain how the Jewish dispora happened?

The Jews lost a rebellion to the Romans way back when and the Romans kicked them out.

[Buckeye]

Hmmm, this thread certainly has taken a strange course, and hardly seems relevant to CM any longer. Fionn issued a challenge. Some of chose to respond. He didn't ask for everyone's political views, or for that matter for a personal pissing match. This isn't a defense of Fionn's views, not all of which I agree with, but this thread is just a bit ridiculous. If it keeps going like this, I think Steve should just close it up. It seems almost bound to deteriorate further.

[dumbo]

Thanks rich.

Ok I am outta here, glad i got some new education out of the thread.

Cheers

_dumbo

[Manx]

ARGIE - You are WRONG in saying the British housed the Jews in "Concentration" Camps. You mean the ALLIES - USA (who organised the majority of camps), CANADA, BRITAIN, FRANCE. The camps (without the concentration) were there to help people, not f****n gas them! which is what you are trying to imply.

[This message has been edited by Manx (edited 06-25-2000).]

[Guest MantaRay]

Geez, this went from a simple, play Fionn thread to Abusername trying to get more of his 15 mins of fame to prejudice and concentration camps. Can you smell banishment?

Ray

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[Mikeydz]

I honestly must admit that User had me fooled for a moment thinking that he might be able participate in this forum without causing any more grief, from what I saw in the thread about smoothbore weapons. But alas, User has managed to do his little troll routine and turn a simple game request thread and turn it into a completely off topic pissing match. I now look forward to seeing him get added to the banned list. It's well earned.

[Fionn]

*sigh* Ok, explanations coming up.

Rich,

I'm not prejudiced against English people. I roomed with some and a lot of my best friends are English. I just prefer not to play PBEMs as English soldiery, especially now that the investigation into Bloody Sunday is uncovering more evidence that snipers did intentionally shoot unarmed civies on Bloody Sunday. As dumbo said... It would simply make me feel "queasy" to play them. Nothing against Brits but it just wouldn't feel right to play as a British commander.

As for my opinions and beliefs... I tell it like I see it. I do NOT expect or want everyone to agree with me. I 100% respect differences of opinion so long as the other person has logically thought out their position.

I'm friends with quite a few people from this forum privately (whom I've met through this forum) and have discussed many issues with these people. We VERY rarely agree on most issues but since we both respect the other's positions all's AOK.

Basically my point is that I express myself strongly and openly since I say what I mean and mean what I say. As far as I am concerned it is the only way to live.

I don't demand that anyone agree with me but I DO prefer if their position has been given some thought. As dumbo and a few others here can tell you I've engaged in deep discussions with many of them about various issues which have come up in the forum privately and whilst neither side's position has changed both sides have almost always been able to gain a bit more understanding and respect for eachother. My style is curt and fortright since I don't appreciate beating around the bush but that is ONLY my style and it should be borne in mind.

Rich,

I didn't close any threads. You are obviously so new here that you don't know how the forum works. BTS closed it.

Now, onto your point... I said I prefer not to play as the Brits in PBEM games. I happen to know many English people and am on friendly terms with several officers in the British army.. A few of whom have even served in the North, for which I gently rib them .. It really is a nasty little war up there though. Anyways, I'm not prejudiced against the British as any of these people will tell you and I certainly wouldn't label a whole nation as "murderers" as you did. I merely don't like to play as the British due to some of the actions they committed in the North ( close to home so to speak).

Now, you might ask where the difference between our positions is eh? Well, it is simple, YOU labelled an entire ethnic group as "murderers". I objected to that since it is the grossest form of generalisation.

In effect the majority of Muslims from the Middle East region I've spoken to don't agree with the behaviour of the suicide bombers and other terrorists vis a vis Israel. You must remember that according to Islam a suicide bomber really will not go to paradise. Of course, Hezbollah gets all these young kids and fills their heads with Hezbollah's version of the Quran in which it glosses over such issues and assures them that if they carry out a bombing their family will be well looked after and then these kids go out and for the betterment of their family and their people go and blow themselves up.

These kids are as much victims as the people they kill since they are both merely pawns in a much greater game. Of course, most Westerners don't realise the societal context within which bombers and terrorists in the region are recruited and don't understand the Quran's view of the matter.

Labelling a whole people as murderers is a gross over-generalisation rich. The murderers are the kids who blow Israelis up and the mullahs and terrorists who indoctrinate and send them on their missions. The vast majority of the remainder of the ethnic group you singled out is merely interested in getting a better life and doesn't much care about killing Israelis one way or the other.

So, in conclusion.... what you said and what I said were different. If you can't see that then perhaps you should look into gaining some perspective.

Freyland,

One man's unecessary verbal duel is another man's "response to a troll". Also, I'll note that, until you've been subject to the public and private TLC of guys like Lusername you shouldn't judge my willingness to stand up to them and not give an inch.

Of course, in your post you painted me into a corner with your options since you've laid out two paths. One in which I admit you're right and the other in which I disagree with you and (according to you) engage in some dishonourable behaviour . Next point: It IS possible to disagree with someone without being dishonourable or petty. I merely have the opinion that I shouldn't ever let other get away with espousing questionable views.

This is an extension of my belief that evil only needs good men to stay silent to flourish. Thus, if I see something which I know is false or prejudiced etc etc I speak up. Your style may be different but I would hope both of our intentions are the same

Lusername,

Umm, when you replied to an email in which I offered to meet with you privately and explain the whole nahverteidigungswaffe thing you emailed me . I was referring to the reply to my email offering a meeting on "neutral" ground so I could explain the research I'd done on the nahv. Let's not be so pedantic eh?

Rich,

Just seeing another of your posts .

I never said the Palestinatians were ALL wonderfully nice people. Hell, some of them are terrorists. I merely disagreed with you when you said that "palestinians are murderers"... They aren't. A small subsection of the palestinian population are.

Now, if you'd said... "Palestinian terrorists are murderers of innocent women and children" then I would have fully agreed with you since the terrorists are murderers. However, if you had left out the word terrorist from that sentence I'd have disagreed with you.

Do you understand where I'm coming from now? I merely objected to you labelling an entire ethnic group as murderers. I think that you should have said that the terrorist portion of that ethnic subgroup are murderers. That, is patently true and I would agree with that.

Pengster ,

No worries. I enjoy your posts like everyone else . Seriously I never even bothered about you calling me Fiona. If someone like Lusername does it it is an attempt to insult me. When you or someone normal does it I know it is just in good fun . Keep on trucking

Major B,

LOL.. Hmm, I've met some nice French women but the men are all horrible . I could tell you some stories of school trips ove there which would make your toes curl.

Naja,

*sigh*. One newspaper story = your view of a country? Methinks you should know more about a nation before commenting publicly about it. We've come a long way recently.

As for the whole issue of concentration camps and who did what to whom in the Middle East post-WW2 Hmm, I'll let everyone digest this email and check the response to it before setting some of the incorrect history being espoused here and now right.

[argie]

I'm not impliyng nothing with it... The only I'm saying is that before the WWII a lot of Jews want to reach Palestine, and the English want to impede it. They used the former concentration camps as lodgement for those Jews, who in their majority were dying previously right here. They even make another one in Chipre, with even worse salubrity conditions as being in a tropical zone. All the stuff explode in the Government face when a ship full of starved and battered Jews was deviate to a Spanish port or Gibraltar (the same thing in my book ) were some journalists pick the story. This happens circa 1947/8, when the English in Palestine were being heavily harassed by Jew and Arab Freedom Fighters

The only I'm trying to said is that every one has his own prejudices, and no country is free from aberrant acts... And the British Empire is paramount in it.

I know all this ugly stuff because, as Argentinian, I'm biased against the British Empire, which enforces my premise.

Ariel

[:USERNAME:]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rich12545:

The palestinians say they want a homeland. I say give them one. How about Sinai?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How about Ireland? Fionn can be The Sheik of Eire.

Lewis

PS To all the posters that have forgotten that the origional "tiff" here was about Fionn playing with a 16 year old boy who he said was cheating him. Talk about a persecution complex..sheesh.

[Spook]

Irrespective of your cited "tiff", Username, it's comments like yours just now that make the forum persecution of Fionn, by select members, a reality instead of a "complex".

What ARE you trying to prove?

[This message has been edited by Spook (edited 06-25-2000).]

[:USERNAME:]

Ive got nothing to prove. Fionn likes to mock cripples (maximus/OB&G) and accuse 16 year olds of acting like, well 16 year olds.

He has a problem with the truth and I am now pedantic because of it. The fact is HE emails me because he has a need to EXPLAIN himself privately about his secret weapon information and I said either explain it in the forum here or QUIT emailing me. Finally I had to resort to unsavory language to get him to go away. Ahem.

He is bossy and needs to dictate his wishes over people and has secret uber info. You just cant win because Hes Fionn and is soon to be canonized.

I would have liked to have seen the "Valley" game he lost so ignobly to Madmatt published in TGN. That would make good reading.

Lewis

[marcusm]

Fionn:

As a sidenote. Would you play the Irish regiments under the Brittish side?

Or is there another way to portray Irish regiments?

It would be cool if Scottish and Irish had their own force pools though . I want bagpipes in the game.

Marcus

[rich12545]

Labelling a whole people as murderers is a gross over-generalisation rich. The murderers are the kids who blow Israelis up and the mullahs and terrorists who indoctrinate and send them on their missions. The vast majority of the remainder of the ethnic group you singled out is merely interested in getting a better life and doesn't much care about killing Israelis one way or the other.

Fionn, thank you for your clarification. I can go along with what you said with one caveat. I believe the vast majority is interested in Israel's demise and the minority is merely interested in getting a better life. Now maybe we can agree to disagree and get on with CM.

[Gen. Sosaboski]

To get back to the original topic:

Fionn, I am busy during July, but figure around mid-late August I'll be available. You on for a Poles vs. Germans game? Let me know.

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[Fionn]

Rich,

Hell, no need to disagree on it . I agree that most Palestinians DO want Israel to dissapear. I also just happen to think that most don't think terrorist attacks are the way to go. OTOH I also know that if their countries went in for a conventional war with Israel that they'd be in there with their AKs vs Israel.

It is more that they agree with the destruction of Israel but don't agree with suicide bombings etc. However give them a conventional war vs Israel and they'd be very happy. ( at least until their logistics train was destroyed and they went up against Merkava IIs and IIIs in T72s )

Marcusm,

Yes. I think the Irish, Welsh and Scottish regiments have a good history. Really I just strongly object to the para regiment since they shot so many innocent civies ( and yeah I disagree with all the terrorists in the north who've done the same)...

Sos,

You're on. Same goes for anyone here who doesn't have the game yet...

I've got 9 or so game going now and as soon as some finish I'll post and take on a couple more.

As for Lusername,

Guys, it's become obvious to me that he isnt even interested in a discussion here or anything. He simply is going to use every post I make or you make to attack me more. Best thing to do is just leave him alone.

If Lewis really thinks that pointing out that someone didn't play with FOW ON is some attempt to persecute someone well then what can I do? Answer.. nothing...

The truth etc simply isn't an issue here. He just wants to get his hits in so let's just let him. I'm tired of trying to reason with him or get him to see reason.

[marcusm]

About Palestinians I want to add that both are equally responsible for the violence. I do not blame the Palestinians for their hatred either. The Isrelis conducted some of the most ruthless massacres of civilians since SS did their work in Babi Jar(One of the refugees I spoke with lost all his family in summary executions). Shatila is another event that the Israelis are responsible for.

A famous Jewish survivor(Ferenc Göndör) of the death camps I spoke with said he was deeply ashamed of the way Israelis have treated the Palestinian civilians.

So just like in all other conflicts there are no single bad guy, there were many. The people of this forum should also be aware of the peace villages that exists in Israel. There Jews and Palestinians work together to bridge the differences. So not everything is black and white in this conflict as some of the posters think. Not that this has to do with CM though. Hopefully Israelis, Palestinians and other antagonists can meet on the virtual battlefields in the future instead of real bloodshed .

Marcus