How about Tanks ramming other tanks in battle???

[Guest Rommel22]

During battle this happened frequently, atleast on the eastern front. Both sided rammed enemy tanks if they ran out of ammo or if their gun was damaged. This options would be very nice.

I found my self in a battle with one tank (I had troops too) the tanks was a Tiger. A sherman managed to damage it's gun so I had no way of taking out the remaining 4 Shermans still rolling around the battle field and killing my helpless troops. This would be a perfect oppurtunity for the tiger to charge at one of the Shermans and ram it.

BTS, please consider this option, please!!! It would add to the realism. Situations where tanks rammed each other was a common accourance, I think I have pictures of it somewhere, if I find them I'll try to post them.

------------------

From the Das Reich book as said by a German soldier

"when the Russians reached us, we opened fire, the first wave had no weapons.

The second wave didn't either (fire fodder). The 3rd and 4th had weapons and opened fire on us.

By this time we were low on ammo, but we drove them back."

[Guest Mirage2k]

Personally, I would think that trying to take out the Shermans with your infantry is the better option...

-Andrew

------------------

VOTE BLAH FOR PRESIDENT!

Throw me a frickin' smiley, people!

Your one-stop-shop for gaming news is www.SiegersPost.com ! Hit it!

BLAH IN 2000!

[JoePrivate]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Rommel22 wrote:

BTS, please consider this option, please!!! It would add to the realism. Situations where tanks rammed each other was a common accourance, I think I have pictures of it somewhere, if I find them I'll try to post them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? Ask yourself this, if you were the TC with your main gun inoperable would you be running around trying to ram other tanks? Does that seem reasonable?

I'm sure there were instances when this happened but I think the occurrences would be better described as rare rather than common.

[Guest Rommel22]

Well not that common, but the russian did it often, if desperate. Comon the Russians rammed other planes with thier planes. The russians were and are crazy.

Anyway, I just want the option of tanks causing damage to each other when ramming each other. The Germans did it too, like I said I have a book with a picture of this. A stug III I think (looking for the book) ramed a t-34. the stug ran on top of the t-34 almost taking of it's turret.

I just want BTS to take under consideration or implement this in the game!!!

------------------

From the Das Reich book as said by a German soldier

"when the Russians reached us, we opened fire, the first wave had no weapons.

The second wave didn't either (fire fodder). The 3rd and 4th had weapons and opened fire on us.

By this time we were low on ammo, but we drove them back."

[Tiger]

Tiger tanks would never be used in this manner. A disabled gun could be repaired and the unit would make it's way back behind the lines to be repaired, if it wasn't immobilized or broken down due to mechanical failure. Trying to ram enemy tanks if your gun was damaged or knocked out would be completetly against tactical doctrine for the Tiger tank. Heinz Guderian must be rolling in his grave.

-johnS

[109 Gustav]

To ram a sherm, the tiger would first have to get close enough, highly unlikley when one considers the sherm's speed and turning advantages over the tiger. Anyway, if there were 4 shermans left on the battlefield, getting close to one would probably mean giving another a flank shot. Better to just retreat the tiger, and use it as a moving machinegun nest for the rest of the game.

------------------

There is nothing certain about war except that one side won't win.

-Ian Hamilton

[Bastables]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 109 Gustav:

To ram a sherm, the tiger would first have to get close enough, highly unlikley when one considers the sherm's speed and turning advantages over the tiger. Anyway, if there were 4 shermans left on the battlefield, getting close to one would probably mean giving another a flank shot. Better to just retreat the tiger, and use it as a moving machinegun nest for the rest of the game.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There are only 3 other veh chassis that are comparable to the Tiger in turning advantage (read ability to neutral steer) Panther, Cromwell and the Churchill. The Sherman is not capable of neutral steering and is therefore unable to turn on its axis as the aforementioned tanks.

[Guest Rommel22]

Ok maybe not with a Tiger, I would just like this to be modeled in the game. So that a player has the option of doing this what ever side he is playing for. It probably would require more programming but I would think it would be a great option. You can use any tactics you like but sometimes I get crazy in battle and use desperate mesures.

You might not use a tiger, you might have a platoon of stugs maybe and they are all out of ammo (just hypothetical, stay with me) and you have 3 more shermans (or cromwells or any tank) and they are pounding your troops to bits (lets say the Shermans are 200m away). You'll try anything. At least I would there you can send the stugs on their way to ram the Shermans.

Please just give the option of damage being done when tanks colide, I think it is more realistic that way.

------------------

From the Das Reich book as said by a German soldier

"when the Russians reached us, we opened fire, the first wave had no weapons.

The second wave didn't either (fire fodder). The 3rd and 4th had weapons and opened fire on us.

By this time we were low on ammo, but we drove them back."

[USTanker]

Ramming another tank, either in the game or in real life, is true desperation. Your chances of damaging the other tank is not that great unless you are going really fast or downhill. Besides that, it really hurts when you hit anything hard enough in a tank. I can tell you this from actual experience. Tanks are just as hard inside the turret as they are on the outside. Just because the tank stops moving doesn't mean you will.

Also, it's much more satisfying to run over crunchies (er, infantry).

[Guest Peiper the 2nd]

I agree.

[This message has been edited by Peiper the 2nd (edited 09-06-2000).]

[Guest Rommel22]

Ok, WHAT DID I SAY IN THE FEW PREVIOUS POSTS???

I just want the option available and yes it did freakin' happen. I have been looking for the book all day which mentioned this. Yes it would defintly hurt duh, hitting something hard as another tank, but eyh, people do get desporate, especially in war. People swear like you wouldn't believe as described by a lot of veterans an you loose your nerves you loose you common sense. Your adreneline rushing your tank out of ammo your gunner dead, your commander dead, you, the driver see another tank about 200meters away. Yuo charge the bastard.

I just want the option of this being possible. especially the eastern front where the Russians had such a big numerical superiority, they could efford this. I am sure the allies in west would to. Maybe yo could ram something weaker, like a m8 scout car with a stugIII or something like that.

I just want damage modeling on vehcle collision so it's more believeble. I am tired of seeing just tanks stopping when coming in contact with another vehcile or just pushinging the other vehicle aside. Just annyoing. Thanx

[Guest Rommel22]

I figured out what book it was, the book with the pic of tank ramming.

It's called "Operation Bagration" I am not sure if that's exact. I gave the book to someone, but if anyone has the book tel me. I'l try to get a hold of it again. I fogot the name of the author too. Sorry.

[Olle Petersson]

Hi all!

I'm with Rommel22 on this one, but would not constrain this to vehicles only, but all units (including crunchies) and also buildings.

(Then we can all run a little demolition derby when tired of shooting at each other .)

Cheers

Olle

[PvK]

Of course it's realistic if collisions could cause various effects. However it could pose problems for the AI, for players trying not to have their own tanks collide, and worst of all, for gamey tactics. I think the game can already get into some gamey overload issues when at close range with multiple tanks, because the human player can only enter orders once per minute, and the TacAI can only respond with a certain amount of intelligence. Without some sorts of limits (e.g. only by accident, only when the game determines a unit goes berzerk, or only when a severe morale check is passed to obey a ram order), I expect some players would tend to over-use this tactic.

PvK

[Freyland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rommel22:

Ok, WHAT DID I SAY IN THE FEW PREVIOUS POSTS???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I DON'T KNOW. PLEASE CONSIDER ALWAYS TALKING IN CAPS SO THAT WHEN WE READ YOUR POSTS YOU CAN BE SURE WE UNDERSTAND YOU. IT HELPS A LOT. SO DOES RITALIN, BUT I AM NOT FAXING YOU A PRESCRIPTION AT THIS HOUR.

[Abbott]

Well, the only documented evidence of ramming I have was done with a SUV. My ex-wife rammed a Camaro (I believe) 3 years ago with my Jeep Cherokee. It wasn’t pretty but I honestly believe if the Camaro would have had a turret it would surely have been almost knocked off!

[Seanachai]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rommel22:

Ok, WHAT DID I SAY IN THE FEW PREVIOUS POSTS???

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The same thing over and over and over. I want, I want, I want. It must be your mantra. We understand what you want modeled. Seems like a fairly crazy tactic, and pointless to add to CMBO, but maybe BTS will consider it for CM2.

------------------

After witnessing exceptional bravery from his Celtic mercenaries, Alexander the Great called them to him and asked if there was anything they feared. They told him nothing, except that the sky might fall on their heads.

[EScurlock]

It's allready in there. Not a likely accourance seeing you can't adjust dirrection mid turn, but tanks can hit each other. A ram command however I think would be a bad idea. Could you immagine how abused such a command would be?

------------------

He who gets there the fastest with the mostest wins.

[PeterNZer]

For the work involved with programming it then the necesary patches and AI tweaks, I really don't think its worthwhile.

I mean you'd see it, what.. once in 20 games if you were lucky?

Mind you, that seems to be my luck with damn air support in games

PeterNZ

[KiloIndiaAlpha]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rommel22:

Ok, WHAT DID I SAY IN THE FEW PREVIOUS POSTS???

People swear like you wouldn't believe as described by a lot of veterans an you loose your nerves you loose you common sense. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which historical accounts of WW2 have you been studying? I really don't believe that people, during the war, would be swearing. You can't go around making broad and sweeping statements such as that without solid documentary evidence to substantiate it.

So tell me what are your sources, what evidence supports the claim that people would be swearing?

------------------

Weeeni widi wiki

[Fred]

Hmm,

a Carmageddon mode for CM...

Not worth the time to implement this IMO.

Fred

------------------

"I got signals, I got readings, in front and behind of us!" - PFC Hudson on LV-426 mission

[Guest Turret]

soemeone has been watching too much Battlebots on the Comedy Channel.

[Hiram Sedai]

Ramming tanks? Uh, no thanks.

------------------

-Work Hard

-Type Fast

-Save Often

[IntelWeenie]

OK, let's take this from another angle.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rommel22:

I just want damage modeling on vehcle collision so it's more believeble.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What would you have the damage be? I reread all of your posts to make sure I wasn't overlooking anything, but nowhere do you mention what the effect of a vehicular collision should be. A Tiger could certainly crush a jeep, but what would it do if it managed to hit a Sherman? Mobility kill? Gun Hit? Nothing? Relative velocity, mass, size and a great many other factors would have to be considered for something that, when considered against 5+ years of armored combat, was really extremely rare. Sure, it sometimes happened, and so did air-to-air ramming. How many flight sims model THAT (Without your a/c being destroyed, too)?

In conclusion, it would be too much work to produce a credible/authentic effect to be worth it for something that was not commonplace anyway.

------------------

Canada: Where men were men, unless they were horses.

-Dudley Do-right

[Dan Robertson]

I have a specific acount of a tank hitting another in combat.

The occastion was after the breakout of Normandy. In what was to be the largest tank engagement on the westurn front.

The engagment was at close range between British Cromwells and German heavies.

The Cromwells charged the Germans from dead ground at a distance of 300 metres.

One of the British accounts tell of how he hit a panther at short range from the flank, because he was traveling so fast the tuuret of the panther turret could not track him and he hit the vehicle in the side with his 75, a K-Kill. (has this every happened in the game?)

Another Cromwell was set on fire by a crew compartment penetration by a tiger, the driver insted of stopping and abandoning the vehicle. Accelerated and hit the Tiger tank with sufficent force to roll it over. The Tiger was itself consumed in the blaze, the crew probliby sevrely injured by the impact could not esacpe as the Tiger was rolled on to it's roof.

Of course one must remeber that the cromwell was just about the fastest WWII tank and at 30 tonnes was not particulary light. So the impact would have been pretty imense.

Still this is more than desperation this is the driver of the stricken tank realising he is dead anyway and taking some Germans with him.