jshandorf Posted December 20, 2000 Share Posted December 20, 2000 Hello all, I have noticed that in most of my PBEMs my opponents rarely choose the M4, M4A1, or M4A3 even those these Shermans were the majority of Shermans produced and saw action on the west front. Now anyone can see WHY one would do this but my question is how can this be corrected? What I mean by that is when I play a battle as the Germans and I select say... 3 PzIVs and 1 PzV historically I should expect my ooponnent to have 10-12 Sherman M4A1 or M4A3 with MAYBE a couple 75(W)s or 76(W)s variants thrown in, but I rarely see this. I was wondering how the point cost for the allied tanks could be changed so that people would be "persuaded" more to make these kind of purchases. Raise the cost of the 75(W)s and 76(W)s or lower the cost of the M4, M4A1, and M4A3s? Thanks, Jeff ------------------ I once killed a six pack just to watch it die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted December 20, 2000 Share Posted December 20, 2000 Not be an annoying grognard type, but this has been discussed before. The crux of the matter is that CM does NOT "encourage" historical force selection through the points system. Which is why you see a vastly disproportinate number of M4(76)'s, Fireflys, King Tigers, Panthers, Pupchen (my personal pet peeve - I think they should be removed form the game completely), etc., etc. I suggest you do a search on the Fionn 75/76 rules. Personally, I think they suck, but they are an attempt to address the issue you are raising. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted December 20, 2000 Share Posted December 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jshandorf: Hello all, I have noticed that in most of my PBEMs my opponents rarely choose the M4, M4A1, or M4A3 even those these Shermans were the majority of Shermans produced and saw action on the west front. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What about in our game boyo? I love 75 Shermans - Cheap, kills infantry, and just enough punch to make it useful if pressed into the anti-armor role. The additional armor of the W and W+ are not enough for the additional cost. I use TDs to take care of the uber tanks. This has worked quite well for me to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted December 20, 2000 Share Posted December 20, 2000 IIRC, there was talk that CM2 (or was it CMII??) was going to include the ability to purchase historical OOBs. That would somewhat solve the problem. I think the other issue comes down to playing an opponent who has an understanding of the history of the war and understands the prevalence of the base M4, and the rarity of the Jumbo. Without that, there's no way to do it really, and I don't know that it merits a rewrite or patch to correct. ------------------ WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! - THIS SIG FILE BELONGS TO A COMPLETE FOO. MR T WOULDN'T BE SO KIND AS TO WRINKLE AN EYEBROW AT THIS UNFORTUNATE BEING. PLEASE OFFER HIS PARENTS AND COHABITANTS ALL SYMPATHY POSSIBLE. MAY BE CONTAGIOUS. CONTAINS ARTIFICIAL SWEETNER, INTELLIGENCE AND WIT. STAND WELL CLEAR AND LIGHT WICK. BY ORDER PETERNZ Damn Croda. That is one funny sig!!! must suck to be you - Hiram Sedai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lah Posted December 20, 2000 Share Posted December 20, 2000 How about just asking if your opponent would agree to an armour unit cost limit, ie: 130pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted December 21, 2000 Author Share Posted December 21, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marlow: What about in our game boyo? I love 75 Shermans - Cheap, kills infantry, and just enough punch to make it useful if pressed into the anti-armor role. The additional armor of the W and W+ are not enough for the additional cost. I use TDs to take care of the uber tanks. This has worked quite well for me to date. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The W and W+ models also have the long barreled 75mm which has a bit more punch then the short barrel. BTW... Have you done your orders for our next turn? Hmmmm? Jeff ------------------ I once killed a six pack just to watch it die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted December 21, 2000 Author Share Posted December 21, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman: Not be an annoying grognard type, but this has been discussed before. The crux of the matter is that CM does NOT "encourage" historical force selection through the points system. Which is why you see a vastly disproportinate number of M4(76)'s, Fireflys, King Tigers, Panthers, Pupchen (my personal pet peeve - I think they should be removed form the game completely), etc., etc. I suggest you do a search on the Fionn 75/76 rules. Personally, I think they suck, but they are an attempt to address the issue you are raising. Jeff Heidman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I realize that Jeff but why isn't it a concern of BTS when they are trying to strive for historical accuracy? It would seems this would run contrary to their desires. Jeff ------------------ I once killed a six pack just to watch it die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted December 21, 2000 Share Posted December 21, 2000 Basically the quick battles are always gamey. The historic scenarios are scenarios. There's lot's of historically correct premade battles around, you can play those or make ones you like. Quick battle just provides a setting where both sides have about equal chances. Highly uncommon in real battlefield. BTW, W and + Shermans have the same gun as the normal ones. They're just better armored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Arabian Posted December 21, 2000 Share Posted December 21, 2000 Croda is correct - this has been discussed and I think the solution proposed was that in CM2 (not the new engine version) there would be two purchasing systems that can be selected (presumably at the outset of the scenario) - one similar to what we have now in CM1, and one that basicaly makes a historical penalty/benefit based on the production numbers. So sorry, no more mad packs o' pumas running around.... Until then, I'm afriad its going to just be up to the honor of your opponent.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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