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OT-For FALLOUT fans.....

Maximus

By Maximus
in Combat Mission Archive #2 (2000)

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Guest Warphead-

Guest Warphead-

Posted
Posted

That would be the only thing I would stop CM for. Fallout 1 and 2 gave me the most intense gaming experience up to date. I hope this one will be a blast too... biggrin.gif

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["Haben die Krupp-Werke Betriebsausflug? Da rollt ja halb Deutschland auf mich zu..." (Vincent)]

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joeski Senior Member

joeski

Posted
Posted

Dusting off my pipboy.

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"If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them." - Jack Handey

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Jesse Junior Member

Jesse

Posted
Posted

The Fallout series were the only RPGs what I played to the end animation. I'like the post-apocalyptic feeling of it.

And btw, check these screenshots out!

http://www.interplay.com/falloutbos/vehicles.html

They are really kicks ass! A Sherman, a Schwimmwagen, and a Steyr RSO will be featured in the Fallout Tactics!!!! WW2 vehicles in the XXII. century? Cool! smile.gif)

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Jagdcarcajou Senior Member

Jagdcarcajou

Posted
Posted

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by saru3000:

I just saw that the demo was released today.Unfortunately, it's a hefty 150mb.My 56k modem has seizures just thinking about it.

Any of you lucky bastards with access to a really high speed connection want to DL it and give us a review?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey,

I downloaded it earlier, and will try to get some comments up tomorrow.

Chris

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What the hell is a Jagdcarcajou?

CM Recon

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Ezmartini Member

Ezmartini

Posted
Posted

It doesn't actually sound as interesting as the first two (though i loved them). The developers, Black Isle and Bioware, are making some changes that I don't like, such as scrapping the story for more action-based gameplay (hence the subtitle 'Tactics'). C'mon guys, the story was the best part of the first two! Now let's just be careless and throw it away! Oh well, one less customer for them.

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"You see, while I've been gone you loony chumchucks have thrown Peng in a ditch, ran Frenchie out of town and reduced Seanachai to a four-sentence-max-posting wretch. To compound this, you have managed to create an entire fantasy world for me to occupy that consists almost but not entirely of a Polar Bear's rectum. And, AND, you moved the Cesspool to Australia. You should be ashamed of yourselves." - Elijah Meeks

RUN LIKE HELL - CM/Cross Country motto

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vimes Junior Member

vimes

Posted
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It doesn't actually sound as interesting as the first two (though i loved them). The developers, Black Isle and Bioware, are making some changes that I don't like, such as scrapping the story for more action-based gameplay (hence the subtitle 'Tactics'). C'mon guys, the story was the best part of the first two! Now let's just be careless and throw it away! Oh well, one less customer for them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This game isn’t sequel to the first tow games, it is set in the same game universe and I believe it would have little overlap whit the original tow. I personally like the idea, ever since I played the Jagged Alliance 2 I thought that the Fallout world would be a perfect setting for this kind of game. BTW I still play Fallout 2 from time to time, a great game.

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Chupacabra Senior Member

Chupacabra

Posted
Posted

My take on the demo -

Just a little background first. I love Fallouts 1 & 2, and I've got nothing but fond memories of the Fallout world. Mutant scorpions, Raiders, Bloodclaws, it's all good. I also love the XCom/Jagged Alliance games. In fact if I had to choose a favorite genre, I'd probably say squad-based tactical.

Which is why the demo, so far, has been disappointing. It leaves out the best bits of both Fallout and JA/XCom, and all you're left with is the soggy residue.

They've gone with a quasi-maybe-sortof turn-based engine. It's not really turn-based but it's not really real-time either. It feels like one of the developers said, "hey, turn-based is good," and then the producer said "but real-time is what sells, so do that. Oh, and colored lighting. And do it like you mean it!"

The result is the Continuous Time system, which boils down to all the frantic clicking fun of Diablo times however many squad members you've got. Some commands are hotkeyed, but I found the hotkeys completely unintuitive, and at least for the demo, you can't remap them. Of course, you can issue all of your orders by mouse, but A) this is a slow process in the best of cases and B) the game is quite finicky, so you have to be pixel perfect in selecting characters or buttons, most of which are quite small in 1024x768. So instead of laying cunning traps for unsuspecting baddies, I found myself pounding my keyboard and mouse mercilessly while my characters blundered into Bad Guys With Big Guns. I really found it quite difficult to use decent squad tactics.

The above rant should've been baseless, seeing as they've included a full turn-based combat mode in the game. Trouble is, it doesn't work very well. Like most turn-based games, your characters have a limited number of Action Points which they can spend every turn. For example, if a character starts off with 10 APs and fires a gun with a 4 AP cost, he'll still have 6 APs left to move around or do whatever. The key to mastering this type of turn-based combat is to remain constantly aware of how many APs your characters have left, and how many APs most common actions require to execute. Which is what makes the designer's decision to not inform you how many APs it takes to move a certain distance so baffling. Everything else is simple. The AP cost of weapons are listed on your display, the AP cost of changing stances or using a stimpack is a constant, but you're given no indication of how many APs it will cost to move from here to there. I constantly found myself running out of APs nowhere near to where I intended to be. Which is unfortunate, if where I intended to be was out of the line of fire. Again, this made it extremely hard to implement decent squad tactics. I realize that this is a demo, and oversights are bound to happen, but I have to wonder if any of the designers actually tried playing the game in turn-based mode.

The demo isn't bad otherwise. The demo looks and sounds good, and the scenarios are well-designed. If the designers overhaul the combat system before the final release, it could be a fun game. But currently, as a tactical combat game, it can't stand up to games like Jagged Alliance 2.

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Soy super bien soy super super bien soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super

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Chupacabra Senior Member

Chupacabra

Posted
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I don't recall offhand, but I believe that the number of APs required was displayed in the center of the hex you were plotting a move to.

In any case, it didn't hamper the first two games, because the first two games' combat was so stylized. Put on the Mark II Powered Armor, bust out your trusty Plasma Rifle, and you didn't need to move. But in a game which emphasizes tactical combat, it really is an inexcusable omission. In a game like this, it's necessary to know if you'll be able to make it to cover by the end of the turn, or if you'd be better off going prone and popping off a couple of shots.

Like I said, I realize that it's a demo, and it's anyone's guess what they'll change between now and the gold code. But I'd be quite disappointed if this issue wasn't addressed.

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Soy super bien soy super super bien soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super

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Chupacabra Senior Member

Chupacabra

Posted
Posted

The Interplay boards seem to down, so I can't confirm this, but according to one guy I've spoken to, FT will include a pause option for Continuous Time mode, which would solve most of the issues I have with it. As long as I don't feel unduly rushed to crank out orders, I'm happy. As for TB mode, apparently the developers are considering tweaking a few parts of it, including my big gripe above.

If they do so, I'll happily plunk over my $40 for this game. Apart from my gripes, it looks nifty.

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Soy super bien soy super super bien soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super

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deanco Senior Member

deanco

Posted
Posted

My 2c,

On the good side, it's Jagged Alliance Light. Now, anything that brings this kind of gameplay to a wider public, I'm for. However...

On the bad side, I'd go along with pretty much everything that Chupacabra said. Near the end of the first mission I was just bandboxing my guys and clicking as fast as possible. Not good. I didn't get a chance to try the "optional" turn-based version (it took like 6 hours to DL and I have cable) but if it is as Chup says, that error makes it pretty much impossible to play the game the game in a strategic manner. I also noticed the pathfinding AI is not up to the task of threading your men through the labyrinth of tunnels and buildings. In fact, if there is a wall in the way, don't count on the AI to figure out how to go around it. I also noticed it was a laborious process to bring my guys up from a tunnel or down into one. Speaking of AI, the enemy AI didn't really impress me either. A couple times the AI ran right at a pack of 4 of my guys when he couldn't get a hit from where he was at. He was fine where he was, he had my guys pinned down, but he was nothing but dead when he started running at me...

So, looks like the developers tried to please everyone with their hybrid real-time system, and wound up sacrificing a lot of depth. Too bad, the way the characters are set up would allow for some pretty interesting evolutions and a great deal of deep gameplay. Let's hope the final version addresses some of these issues.

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DeanCo--

CM interface mods: http://mapage.cybercable.fr/deanco/

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von Lucke Senior Member

von Lucke

Posted
Posted

Well, Chuppy and Deanco pretty much confirm what I've been reading about this title. Interplay farmed FT out to some independant contractors, and what they've sent back is the Fallout tactical combat system minus the RPG element that made Fallout worth playing in the first place.

Get the Jagged Alliance 2 sequel "Unfinished Business" instead --- at least the environment is destroyable in that one, and you can move yr troops around as you see fit.

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