Lanzfeld Posted July 7, 2000 Share Posted July 7, 2000 What is a good view to watch an aicraft attack from? My AA gunners see the aircraft before the attack (it seems to be on the horizon) and draw an attack line to it with the distance showing (and ticking down) but then the line jumps almost straight up and I cant tell if I hit the aircraft of not. It is really kinda frustrating! Any way to keep the "data" info in sight through the attack? Also....does anyone notice that the aircraft sounds are REALLY weak? I can almost never hear them. When I play the WAV files they are loud but in the game they are a whisper. I know that the aircraft is far away (relatively speaking) but a little louder sound would be nice. (There are no bushes or trees or anything between the plane and the troops to absorb sound so the aircraft sound would travel farther and clearer). One last observation......It is kinda funny to tow a British 40mm AA gun from a truck (any gun with 4 wheels for that matter) because the "base" of the gun (the part with the wheels) never turns. What I mean is it never changes its heading. So if my truck turns the corner it appears to "drag" the gun sideways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted July 8, 2000 Share Posted July 8, 2000 I hear the jabos every time they come, doesn't seem quiet to me. Wonder if it makes a difference that I'm on a Mac. Anyway, seems the sounds are loudest around the target that's being attacked. (Makes sense) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted July 8, 2000 Share Posted July 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lanzfeld: What is a good view to watch an aicraft attack from? My AA gunners see the aircraft before the attack (it seems to be on the horizon) and draw an attack line to it with the distance showing (and ticking down) but then the line jumps almost straight up and I cant tell if I hit the aircraft of not. It is really kinda frustrating! Any way to keep the "data" info in sight through the attack?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> haven't tried this yet, so don't know if it works, but... Why not try pausing the movie as soon as your unit gets a targeting line, and then advance the movie 2 seconds at a time by holding the shift key and clicking the Forward arrow? I've never seen a fighter-bomber hit yet, but someone posted that he saw one crash on the map, so I suppose it can happen. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted July 8, 2000 Author Share Posted July 8, 2000 I'm sure it does not crash on the map....someone is not telling you the truth. [This message has been edited by Lanzfeld (edited 07-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Sessine Posted July 10, 2000 Share Posted July 10, 2000 How does AA work, indeed, does it work? *Little spoiler* I have played the interesting scenario 'Jabo's!' by Dick Reece three times, and in this I had something like 6 Wirbelwinds lined up in close proximity. Whenever the jabo's attacked, which they did just about every other turn, the Wirbelwinds turned towards the incoming fighers (often shifting between targets several times during a turn, making their fire completely ineffectual) and fired their guns. Problem is that they never, not once, hit anything !! This deserves to be looked into, as its pretty much the germans only defense against jabo's, which intrinsically are very annoying, since its pretty much a 'throw with a dice' and not something a german player can do much about (apart from parking vehicles under scattered trees, from what I hear)... Has anyone ever seen AA guns hit anything ? /CS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul T. Gardner Posted July 10, 2000 Share Posted July 10, 2000 On the CMHQ site under Special Events there is a Jabo fest. The Fliegerabwehrkanonen tag 14 Jabos if I remember correctly! ------------------ PTG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rollstoy Posted July 10, 2000 Share Posted July 10, 2000 I throw in a little LOS issue: Whenever Jagdbombers attack a target out of sight, the remaining craters will tell you where the attackers are approaching, even behind a hill where you could not have seen the explosion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aaronb Posted July 10, 2000 Share Posted July 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Count Sessine: Has anyone ever seen AA guns hit anything ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I once had 37mm flak take down a target. During the game, all I noticed was that the carnage stopped. In the AAR, the Axis was credited with an aircraft kill. So it is possible. What AA mostly does, however, is distract aircraft, making their runs less effective and time over the battlefield shorter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 10, 2000 Share Posted July 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Count Sessine: Has anyone ever seen AA guns hit anything ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, repeatedly. In one scenario a 37mm AA gun was credited with two airplanes. I also got the feeling that the quad 20mm is very effective in keeping them at bay. The crater issue is a bit of a bummer, I agree. Connected to the whole lay-of-the-land spotting question, I would guess. I like that you can see the smoke billowing out of destroyed vehicles without being able to see them. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted July 10, 2000 Share Posted July 10, 2000 This probably sounds like a stupid question, but isn't AAA fire an automatic thing once Jabos are overhead? I'm playing a PBEM game in which i placed a single 20mm flak gun about 200 meters to the left of a very important asset, and a quad 20mm HT mounted gun about 100 meters to the right. Neither gun was engaged and both had excellent LOS all around. Sure enough, A jabo could be heard circling overhead for several turns before making its dive and blasting the hell out of my important asset. During that time neither gun did anything to engage the jabo Was there anything i could have done? Or was it just bad luck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Sessine Posted July 10, 2000 Share Posted July 10, 2000 Well, that's good to hear. As Kingfish, I'm curious to know whether there's any good advise as to positioning and such, that you guys could give ? It would seem that I've been pretty unlucky with my AA too... /CS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silencer Posted July 10, 2000 Share Posted July 10, 2000 Doesn't AA work?? try this test: senario flat map: axis: buy 6 wirblewinds, 6 ost's. (vets or higher) place them in a circle, oriented outwards. Do not button up, they will spot the plane far to late. allied: buy planes of 10 , with 3 reinforcement, so that you have 40 planes. (oh and a few infantery in woods somewhere). let the fun begin my result was: 32 planes dead planes, 2 tanks KO S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silencer Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 hmmm, another test I ran with some 10 AA-vehicles. they never shot down 1 plane, very strange. Always missed (elite crews, almost every tank KO after the battle) This only happened once, and before I installed the 1.01 patch. Never had this occur again. Do you want to know if a plane is shut out of the sky? zoom out completely, and you see the shadow over the ground. Sometimes the shadow just disappears, (and some explosions noises). One plane down!! What wonders me is that none of the german tanks have the AA-MG guns installed on their tanks. Especially 44-45 was this a important matter IIRC. Sure one tank with a 7.62mm won't do any harm on a plane, but when a platoon of tanks is spraying lead against the pilot..... Which tanks had a AA-MG guns on them? (almost every late war tank HAD fittings for the MG IIRC) S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Silencer: What wonders me is that none of the german tanks have the AA-MG guns installed on their tanks.S.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That they cna not be seen does not mean they are not there. If you watch your tanks during an air-attack, you can see them fire at the planes. I believe the AA-MGs are not in the graphic for CPU-hit reasons, but I am sure they are coded in. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchy Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 Guys, as a former Marine involved in aviation...it is not that easy to shoot down a plane with AA assets that come with the game. It is extremely hard to shoot down a plane when all targeting is done by "humans", with no guidance systems to help. Tracking was done manually...try targeting a 400 mph plane with a 50 cal, peep site only, about 200 feet off the gorund and get the lead right... Hell, it's hard enough to shoot them down in today's world, despite the technology that's available. It happens, but not that often. ------------------ Webmaster http://www.trailblazersww2.org http://www.vmfa251.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frenchy: Tracking was done manually...try targeting a 400 mph plane with a 50 cal, peep site only, about 200 feet off the gorund and get the lead right... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I was trained on the 20mm twin AA gun by Rheinmetall in the German Air Force. At the time (1988) we had only manual targetting. Basically you have a visor split in five areas, two for planes (one left one right), two for helis and one for ground targets. These would give you a rough indication of the lead needed. Once you have acquired the target, you just pump out the rounds and pray. If a Mi-24 Hind comes along, you run away from the gun b/c you can not hurt it. Never shoot at a plane moving away, it is just a waste of ammo. Range was fixed at 1,600m with our ammo, the munition would just detonate there or at impact, whichever happened early. Ammo was a mixed HE/incendiary round. It did not seem that great a system to me, I must say, so I am glad I never got to use it. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silencer Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 Andreas, are you sure? I've yet to see a german tank fire on a plane. Allied tanks yes, 50cal AA. If the plane comes i can only see red lines from my AA-guns/vehicles towards the plane. And only one yellow line to a tank/gun/unit that's being targetted by the plane. Never saw a red outgoing line from a german tank to a plane!! S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Silencer: Andreas, are you sure? I've yet to see a german tank fire on a plane..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> hmm, I will have to check on that again - I was sure I had seen a Lynx and various PSWs fire at a fighter bomber attack. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silencer Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 yes, Lynx, AC and halftracks, but only the ones that have a 20mm or a greater gun on it. But not the Halftracks with 7.62MG!!!. I think the 40mm AA, is the max gun calibre that can track a plane. (in CM scale) Now i wonder i the daimler gun can shoot at planes, gotta test S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 I had a US vehicle with a AA MG fire at a airplane just last night. Since the main gun CAN NOT track airplanes you won't see a targetting line though. You have to watch for the tracers. Remember secondary vehicle MG's don't show targeting lines. Only main weapons do... This applies no matter the nationality of the vehciles. Pay close attention and look for tell tale tracers arching upward. One other thing to think about is the upward traverse of the MG on the SPW series of halftracks. Thats big gun shield on there and I think it would VERY difficult to keep behind the gun while aiming up at the sky. Seems like the gunner would need to hold on to the gun handels while sitting on the deck. But that just my opinion derived from what I have seen of the mounting. Madmatt... ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission Combat Mission HQ CMHQ-Annex Proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 07-11-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madmatt: But that just my opinion derived from what I have seen of the mounting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I only noticed it b/c of tracer arching upwards, no targetting line. As for the 251/1 - in my younger days i built a lot of the Matchbox model kits, and they had one with a second MG at the rear that was mounted so that you could use it as AA gun, IIRC. Not sure about historic accuracy, of course, but it looked cool. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silencer Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 "Remember secondary vehicle MG's don't show targeting lines" Aha . yes, now you say it. You can als hear it when allied armour shoots at planes by the sound of the 50cal. Donno of i heard the german AA-MG fire on the tanks? Gonna test this evening. MG guns on SPW, yes, that shield looks heavy. But if they face the right direction, and the plane is still far away, the elevation isn't so high. Madmatt, do you know if AA-MG on german tanks is modelled? thnx, S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 Yeah, I think they are, I am not 100% positive but I have done numerous testing of Air Attacks (I even did a Special Feature on this on CMHQ) but I am pretty sure that I have seen some german tanks fire on planes. Again, without the outgoing targeting lines it isn't always obvious but I will try and do some testing of this. I know I saw a StuG with the remote MG target independantly and about 90 degrees off to the side (scared me too as I forgot about it!) but Iwill be sure and check the plane targeting aspect as well... Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission Combat Mission HQ CMHQ-Annex Proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Silencer: But if they face the right direction, and the plane is still far away, the elevation isn't so high.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hmm, from what I have been taught, you may then be court-martialled for wasting ammo... ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TZEENCH Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 Has anyone tested the skf AA HTs?- Do they have to turn the ht to the back before shooting? - Ive done a few tests Its cool but anoying that they turn bass akwards before shooting (who cares whats in the cab- Sheesh) Besides arnt these a turret on a gen carrier?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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