ehbuh Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 Hi all, been having trouble dealing with some weird behavior from the Russian rifle squads and the Italian squads in FI. I find myself having to constantly micromanage these unit's target orders because they seem to very frequently refuse to fire at spotted enemy units >200M out. I've been playing the Hammers Flank campaign's first mission and found that often one of my squads would sit staring down a spotted German unit in a foxhole, maybe 150-200M away, without firing a shot for multiple turns. Seeing this, I'd give them a target briefly order and the full squad would very effectively and immediately open up on the targeted unit and position. I generally play CM to not have to micromanage units like this so its pretty frustrating. Has anyone else dealt with this? It feels almost like a bug or an issue with the spotting, but I'm sure there's some niche doctrinal reason I'm missing for this being a feature. I've faced something similar with the bolt action dominated Italian squads in FI but never with US airborne or germans in BN. The effective range of a mosin according to the manual is 500M so why this hesitation to shoot? Its a little nice feeling like an officer giving the order to shoot each time but when im controlling 20+ infantry squads it gets tiresome 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 FWIK CM2 Tac AI will not have units fire at a target unless the AI calculates that it is "worth it" - ie: can do damage. What "worth it" means precisely to the AI is a closely held secret of BF/Slitherine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 On 9/9/2024 at 4:31 PM, ehbuh said: Hi all, been having trouble dealing with some weird behavior from the Russian rifle squads and the Italian squads in FI. I find myself having to constantly micromanage these unit's target orders because they seem to very frequently refuse to fire at spotted enemy units >200M out. I've been playing the Hammers Flank campaign's first mission and found that often one of my squads would sit staring down a spotted German unit in a foxhole, maybe 150-200M away, without firing a shot for multiple turns. Seeing this, I'd give them a target briefly order and the full squad would very effectively and immediately open up on the targeted unit and position. I generally play CM to not have to micromanage units like this so its pretty frustrating. Has anyone else dealt with this? It feels almost like a bug or an issue with the spotting, but I'm sure there's some niche doctrinal reason I'm missing for this being a feature. I've faced something similar with the bolt action dominated Italian squads in FI but never with US airborne or germans in BN. The effective range of a mosin according to the manual is 500M so why this hesitation to shoot? Its a little nice feeling like an officer giving the order to shoot each time but when im controlling 20+ infantry squads it gets tiresome Whats their veterancy? Conscripts and even green troops wont fire at somewhat close targets unless directed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehbuh Posted September 12 Author Share Posted September 12 @Erwin that was what I was thinking as well. I've dealt with similar situations but not this consistently with this many squads @Artkin they're 90% regular with a couple veteran squads and a couple green squads. You could be right though, I'll have to look at my save and see if it was the green troops specifically not shooting 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 Yeah, having Green Troops and above should allow for firing at these short/moderate ranges...I wonder if giving them 'Firing Arcs' change anything, also make sure they are not giving a 'Hide' Order. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 Reverse slope targets can also be hard to get at. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehbuh Posted September 13 Author Share Posted September 13 (edited) Seems like Erwin was right. Its the squads not deeming it worth it to shoot mixed with the large squad size/scenario conditions causing the spotting to be deceiving. I opened my old save and found one of the situations that was bugging me. There are some enemy trenches that are "spotted" by 3 squads, none of which fire for a whole turn even though their icons imply they see the enemy. So I give them a target order to fire on the trench... and only one of the 8 men in the squad turns to fire. Since at least 1 of the guys has the spot, the whole squad is counted as spotting on the UI. But the tacAI doesn't deem 1 mosin vs a whole trench of germans worth the effort hence why they don't fire on their own. The large soviet squad sizes on top of the rainy/foggy conditions screwing up spotting would seem to cause this issue to pop up here more often than other scenarios. Would be nice if the whole squad could dynamically reposition within their tiles so that most or all of them can engage a unit that one of them has spotted but that'll have to wait for the unity engine update in 2035. anyway, appreciate all the input fellers Edited September 13 by ehbuh removed extra pic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 1 hour ago, ehbuh said: Would be nice if the whole squad could dynamically reposition within their tiles so that most or all of them can engage a unit that one of them has spotted We also see similar issue with crew-served weapons like ATG's and MG's. It seems like the gun can see a target, but it won't fire... the reason is that the spotter is actually only the 3rd ammo leader (or similar) NOT the gunner. Many of us have been requesting for years that the team automatically reorient so that the gunner can fire the weapon at the desired target... But sometimes when the gun turns, it loses LOS. That happens fairly frequently with tanks when their turret turns. LOS is often a bitch in CM. I have often termed the CM2 game, as "The Game of Determining LOS". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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