Bug found with riders on Flammpanzers...

[cbennett88]

Apologies if this has already been discovered/reported. I did a search and did not see it.

I have the complete set of modules to CMRT. Up to date.

Riders are missing. Those are full squads of pioneers on Pz IIIM's

 

https://imgur.com/KQaLVAL

 

https://imgur.com/4Aj0NAr

 

[A Canadian Cat]

Looks bad indeed. Do you have any mods installed? If so can you reproduce it without them? You can just move the mod folders to a temp location and open a saved game to check.

[cbennett88]

1 hour ago, A Canadian Cat said:

Do you have any mods installed?

No mods what-so-ever. I have a Nividia 1070 Ti graphics card. No issues. It's from a QB that is just starting. I will update if I experience any other issues (i.e. infantry do not re-appear when I dismount them)

[Vacillator]

Something is a little odd:

To the right is a Panzer IIIM Flammpanzer with mounted up 11 man Pioneer squad (who are not visible).  And just for fun, in the middle is a normal Panzer IIIM, with the similar 11 man Pioneer squad behind - they won't mount the tank.

This is January 1945 onwards if anyone is looking for it in the editor.

Edited April 9 by Vacillator

[cbennett88]

2 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

the Pioneer squad behind - they won't mount the tank.

The "invisible" riders shouldn't be a problem during the game(assuming they dis-embark properly)...but that would be a frustrating issue. 

[Vacillator]

5 minutes ago, cbennett88 said:

assuming they dis-embark properly

I can check that, but 11 Pioneers plus crew inside a Panzer IIIM flammpanzer seems a little cozy ?  So I don't think the 'disappearance inside' is correct, maybe a graphic bug if nothing else?  And the other squad won't even get on/in the normal Panzer IIIM...

So, the check...

I gave the Flammpanzer a short move command and the hidden Pioneers a dismount.  Sure enough, they popped out.

And also, oddly I was able to give the other squad an embark command onto the normal IIIM, and now they could mount up (it was a bit like musical chairs, but they got there in the end):

[Brille]

20 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

Something is a little odd:

To the right is a Panzer IIIM Flammpanzer with mounted up 11 man Pioneer squad (who are not visible).  And just for fun, in the middle is a normal Panzer IIIM, with the similar 11 man Pioneer squad behind - they won't mount the tank.

This is January 1945 onwards if anyone is looking for it in the editor.

Mounting the normal Panzer IIIM with infantry is no problem in my game.

 

For the Flammpanzer III though it is like you mentioned. First of all it is not in the "Single vehicles" menue and can only be obtained with a formation and secondly there seems to be a placement bug. The soldiers are "visible" but they are not on the right spot. If you move inside the tank you can see them in his innards, each soldier within the other.

[Vacillator]

4 minutes ago, Brille said:

Mounting the normal Panzer IIIM with infantry is no problem in my game.

Agreed, as in my 'test' they'll mount up during the game, but you can't mount them up in the editor, like you can with the 'disappearing' squad in the Flammpanzer.

6 minutes ago, Brille said:

a placement bug

I think so.

[Brille]

11 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

Agreed, as in my 'test' they'll mount up during the game, but you can't mount them up in the editor, like you can with the 'disappearing' squad in the Flammpanzer.

It worked fine in my game, like I´ve said. Pioneers mounted the PanzerIII perfectly within the setup.

[Vacillator]

5 minutes ago, Brille said:

Pioneers mounted the PanzerIII perfectly within the setup.

So oddly, I re-loaded my test and yes they now load up.  So it's just the Flammpanzer issue...

Edited April 9 by Vacillator

[cbennett88]

I am just excited about the prospect of using flammpanzers as “free APCs”! If the soldiers are inside, doesn’t that mean they can’t be shot at? 

[Vacillator]

1 minute ago, cbennett88 said:

doesn’t that mean they can’t be shot at?

If it's a graphics bug, I imagine they are still available to be shot on the outside, we just can't see them. The dismount looked just like an APC kicking them out though, although it was from the side.

@A Canadian Cat - is the hidden Pioneer squad on a Flammpanzer something I should report?

[Kevin2k]

59 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

If it's a graphics bug, I imagine they are still available to be shot on the outside, we just can't see them. The dismount looked just like an APC kicking them out though, although it was from the side.

@A Canadian Cat - is the hidden Pioneer squad on a Flammpanzer something I should report?

IIRC they are inside the armor.

Seemingly two parts are involved with tank riders

1) The game binary has the passenger spots in the vehicle database. In other words; in the executable. The passenger mount option gets enabled for the vehicle.

2) The vehicle model file (mdr file) has the locations for these passenger spots.

With the Flammpanzer item no. 1 is there, but the model doesn't have the passenger locations no. 2. The model is not yet updated for such passengers by the 3D modeler. So all passengers are put at point x,y,z, 0,0,0, - the center of the vehicle.

[Brille]

1 hour ago, Vacillator said:

If it's a graphics bug, I imagine they are still available to be shot on the outside, we just can't see them. The dismount looked just like an APC kicking them out though, although it was from the side.

@A Canadian Cat - is the hidden Pioneer squad on a Flammpanzer something I should report?

I´ve made a short test and you might be surprised:  The position of those soldiers matter. So it is not just a graphic issue, more so a heavy gameplay one I might add.

When infantry fires at the tank from the left or right the mounted infantry is almost invincible... Most if not all shots are intercepted by the wheels/tracks. You can see that the soviets try to fire at the direct location of the soldiers.

Now when you therefor position those soviets in front or at the back of the tank (notracks or wheels in the way) and let them fire, casualties will jump upwards to a point where the infantry decides to disembark the tank. As they are clipping through the tank in the middle, they seem to be targetable at this point.

 

I only tested this with normal small arms weapons, no explosions. @BFCElvis could you please note this as this seem to be a big one. I can provide video evidence if need be.

[BFCElvis]

2 hours ago, Vacillator said:

@A Canadian Cat - is the hidden Pioneer squad on a Flammpanzer something I should report?

Yes.

[BFCElvis]

36 minutes ago, Brille said:

I´ve made a short test and you might be surprised:  The position of those soldiers matter. So it is not just a graphic issue, more so a heavy gameplay one I might add.

Hopefully @Vacillator will have a chance to check and see if this graphical bit is more than just what we're seeing and will be bale to confirm that they are also getting protection for being "inside" the vehicle.

If they are "positioned" wrong, rather than just represented graphicly correctly, it will 100% matter. I remember way way way back in CMSF1 testing there was a vehicle that couldn't "see". After much hair pulling it turned out the the 3D model had a sodlier facing the wrong way inside of the vehicle. And him facing the wrong position prevented him from seeing out. 

[Vacillator]

5 minutes ago, BFCElvis said:

Hopefully @Vacillator will have a chance to check

Will do, but from @Brille's testing it looks like it's an issue.

To quote someone famous "I'll be back".  After some testing...

[Vacillator]

Okay, not a precise test but I mounted up full Pioneer squads on the normal IIIM (left) and the Flammpanzer (right), with two squads of Soviet SMGs on either side.

After a bit of firing, red crosses on the IIIM exposed squad, none on the Flammpanzer 'hidden' squad:

Interestingly, a bit later the Flammpanzer squad jumped ship and ran away:

And a final not so relevant remark, the Panzer IIIs proceeded to destroy the SMG squads, the normal IIIM more-so than the Flammpanzer:

Edited April 9 by Vacillator

[A Canadian Cat]

19 hours ago, Vacillator said:

@A Canadian Cat - is the hidden Pioneer squad on a Flammpanzer something I should report?

Absolutely - go for it.

[A Canadian Cat]

Ooops I missed that Elvis already responded. Once you guys said the riders were positioned inside I figured they would get protection. Model placement matters. So, the oopsie is bigger than graphic. 

[Vacillator]

5 minutes ago, A Canadian Cat said:

Absolutely - go for it.

Okay roger that, will do.