Victory Conditions for a Delaying Action

[Butschi]

I need a little advice on how to setup a delaying action scenario. So my idea is that one side (A) needs to exit at the other side of the map, while the other side (B) is supposed to delay them (while minimizing losses). It should be a major victory for side A to exit, say, 80% of their force. A major victory for side be would be to prevent 30% of side A's force from exiting before the clock runs out, while sustaining less than 30% losses. Maybe extra points for both sides for actually destroying X% of the other side's units.

I'm really confused about how to set victory points for this scenario. As far as I understand it, exit objectives give the other side points for units that didn't get out. So far, so good but if side A exits "only" 70% of their force, that means only 30% of possible VPs for side B which isn't enough for a major victory... And how would I give points to side A which doesn't receive any points this way?

[Centurian52]

The issue is how to award points to side A right?

So side B gets more points if less of side A exits. But since giving the enemy a bloody nose is generally one of the goals of a delaying action, side A can get points for doing damage to side B. So side A gets points by destroying side B's units, and denies points to side B by exiting its own units. Side B gets points by preventing side A units from exiting, and denies points to side A by preserving its own units. Side A wins if the points value of the side B units it destroys exceeds the points value of its own units that it fails to exit. Then it's just a matter of adjusting the points until side A achieves a major victory at the thresholds you want (80% of forces exited while destroying X% of side B).

Since it's a delaying action it would also be nice if there was a way to award points to side A for keeping side B off of a terrain objective for a certain amount of time. But as far as I'm aware there's no way to do this in Combat Mission.

[Heirloom_Tomato]

@Butschi lets say for example each side will have a point total of 1000 points.  I would suggest you pick a certain number or types of units for side A to have them exit before the end of the scenario. Say all their tanks, or all their trucks, "A" and "B" Company, but "C" company could stay behind as the rear guard. In the editor, you would only assign the exit points to these units. In the briefing, be very specific to the side A player, what units need to leave, and what units can stay behind. They would then need to be careful to minimize casualties on those units, while attempting to clear them off the map. These units will have a combined total of 900 points for exiting. The remaining 100 points are given either to causing more than a set threshold of casualties to the enemy or by setting the entire enemy force as a 100 point total. Then they would either get them all for going over say 25% or would need to really smash the enemy force to achieve the extra 100 points. 

Side B gets their points from keeping friendly casualties below your desired threshold, and preventing the enemy from exiting the map. They won't know what units they need to prevent from leaving so they will need to make the decision of how when and where to push hard for maximum benefit. You could give side B an exit point as well, so they can withdraw off the map to help preserve their force. Once you determine which is more important, causing enemy casualties or preserving your own forces, award points accordingly.  You could opt to set the thresholds at 25% own casualties for 300 points, 30% enemy casualties for 300 points and a further 400 points assigned to all the enemy units as a destroy objective. Each unit they take out will award them points and potentially deny the enemy extra exit points.

[Butschi]

Thank you @Centurian52 and @Heirloom_Tomato, very good input!

So, to make it less abstract: I have a US reinforced platoon on one side of the map, side B, and a Soviet MRB, side A, on the other side of the map. Story-wise, the Soviets have made a surprising breakthrough and a US battalion was rushed up to close the gap. They just arrived and need time to setup a proper defence, so a small screening force needs to buy time. Giving the Soviet a bloody nose in the process is a bonus but the main goal is really to delay their arrival at the main line of defence. On the other side, the Soviets have made this breakthrough and now time is of the essence to exploit it before the window of opportunity closes. So there is a small US force in the way? Who cares, we have to rush ahead. Let follow on forces deal with the nuisance.

In this scenario, I struggle to see how to give the Soviets points because killing a few Yankees is all nice and well but really not the main objective. The other issue is how to scale VPs properly for the US side. Ideally no Soviet unit makes it to the exit zone but that can't really be expected from such a small force. If 30% or even 50% are delayed that would be a huge success but that doesn't work with an exit objective. Of course I can (and should) add some extra victory conditions... Part of the whole deal will be scenario time, 30-35 min, I think.

[Thewood1]

I have set up similar scenarios myself to sandbox stuff.  I set up a series of terrain objectives as phase lines for the red side.  The objectives get more points as the red team moves forward.  I used a combination of occupy and touch depending on the type of objective.  If I know a Blue strongpoint, I use occupy or destroy.  Just use the phase line concept and scenario length as a way to force the time issue.  It forces blue to make decisions around troop condition, holding terrain, and time.  I know it sounds obvious, but scenario length is critical in this concept.  Red has to decide on how many casualties its will trade as the point haul accelerates as they get closer to the exit.

Again, the key concept here is balancing the phase line point acceleration against scenario length.  Don't just give a lot of points for key terrain.  They have to be given in the framework of making the red team keep pushing against the clock and distance.  And forcing blue to always be evaluating if stalling red at a phase line is worth the losses.  One concept that I played with was an objective that is literally a single line across the map.  As red touches the objective, they get points.  Use multiple lines and even a few terrain objectives that blue has to occupy for points can work.

CM's objectives are relatively easy to use, but somewhat limited over scripting.  But a little thinking on how a commander would approach both sides lets you use CM unit and terrain objectives to the fullest.

[A Canadian Cat]

The other way to go would be to give the Soviets x points just straight up. Then the US earns up to y points by preventing the forces from exiting. If they prevent none from exiting have the soviets get all of x and the US gets zero for y. Tweak the values so that if the US prevents half from exiting you get the victory conditions you want.

This utility created by @Ithikial_AU really helps no matter which path you choose: https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/cm-mod-warehouse/uncategorized/ithikials-combat-mission-victory-calculator-version-2/

 

[Butschi]

On 2/13/2024 at 8:33 PM, A Canadian Cat - was IanL said:

The other way to go would be to give the Soviets x points just straight up. Then the US earns up to y points by preventing the forces from exiting. If they prevent none from exiting have the soviets get all of x and the US gets zero for y. Tweak the values so that if the US prevents half from exiting you get the victory conditions you want.

This utility created by @Ithikial_AU really helps no matter which path you choose: https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/cm-mod-warehouse/uncategorized/ithikials-combat-mission-victory-calculator-version-2/

 

Yes, I think that's the way to do it. I already had Ithikial tools but it gives me strange results. Serves me right for trying to open a Microsoft file with an Open Source alternative. Heresy!

[Butschi]

Seems like I'm too stupid for this. I set an exit objective for red and and a destroy unit objective for blue. When I start the scenario and immediately hit cease fire, blue only gets ~50-65% of points the point. Is there any trick to this? It works if I only assign the starting on map units to the destroy objective. Once I add reinforcements to the objective it is only a fraction of the points...

[Heirloom_Tomato]

Your aren't wrong, the reinforcements never arrived so they can't be destroyed/trapped on the map so they don't count for points. 

[Butschi]

17 hours ago, Heirloom_Tomato said:

Your aren't wrong, the reinforcements never arrived so they can't be destroyed/trapped on the map so they don't count for points. 

Sorry, I should have provided a little more detail. There is only the CRP, 1 platoon (infantry in BMP2s) plus an FO team in an MT-LBU, on the map. There is a complete Battalion (minus the platoon, of course) as reinforcements. If I only assign the on map units I get 100% of the points. If I only assign, e.g., a different platoon that comes later as reinforcements I get 56.5%. Other configurations give slightly different numbers.