Chibot Mk IX Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 I think this was discussed long long time ago, maybe in CMSF 1 but I cannot remember the details When you choose fire mission in CMSF 2, at effect parameters there are three options: personal, general , armor. What is the type of ammunition used in "for armor" mission? Delayed fused? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Chibot Mk IX said: What is the type of ammunition used in "for armor" mission? Delayed fused? The Jury is still out on that one. I use armor against armor and against apartments with more than one floor. Never tested it how effective it is but it seems a good tactic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humback Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 I can confirm that 81mm mortar has no effect on armor. And I tried some 155mm general rounds, they can't immobilize any tank either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chibot Mk IX Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 3 hours ago, humback said: I can confirm that 81mm mortar has no effect on armor. And I tried some 155mm general rounds, they can't immobilize any tank either. FYI a direct hit from 81mm/82mm mortar can kill thin skin IFV/APC like BMP, BTR and Stryker. I just had a Marine spotter kill a BMP-1 with 81mm mortar. 155mm general rounds' close miss will degrade the tanks' tracks and later immobilize it. On the other hand a direct hit will not degrade the tracks, but can kill most of the T-series tanks. Just some time the ERA blocks will absorb the impact of 155mm (I know that's absurd, but this is CM) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 6 hours ago, humback said: I can confirm that 81mm mortar has no effect on armor. And I tried some 155mm general rounds, they can't immobilize any tank either. In Edge of Darkness in SF2 the Mortars took out the BMP2s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultradave Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 21 hours ago, Chibot Mk IX said: I think this was discussed long long time ago, maybe in CMSF 1 but I cannot remember the details When you choose fire mission in CMSF 2, at effect parameters there are three options: personal, general , armor. What is the type of ammunition used in "for armor" mission? Delayed fused? If no precision munitions are available, a shell with a "Quick" or "Point Detonating" fuze would be fired. The other choices would be "Time" or "VT" (Variable Time). Those two are airbursts and wouldn't have much effect on tanks unless they were all unbuttoned (unlikely for Soviet and Soviet client armor formations). When an FO makes a call for fire, he identifies the target - "Tank platoon in line" "BMPs in road column" "Infantry company in the open" The Fire Direction Center uses that description to decide what and how many to fire for Fire for Effect. The adjusting rounds, if any, are always Quick, never airbursts, unless the adjusting rounds are lost in heavy woods and an airburst is needed just to see the adjusting round (rarely but it's possible to do). An FO can request a specific FFE, but it's the FDC decision. They are the ones that know how many of what type rounds are on hand, and have a better handle on the overall situation - priorities, what's happening to adjacent units, etc. In game, I think what you see is no air burst, just ground bursts, which is "Quick" fuzed rounds. If you select General, or Personnel, you I think get a mix of both, although I'm not much of a SF2 player. The munitions in each case are the same. Just the fuze is different. Precision rounds are a whole 'nuther story. Dave 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Ultradave said: General, or Personnel, What is better in the game Personnel or General when you call for a mission in a forest? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chibot Mk IX Posted November 8, 2023 Author Share Posted November 8, 2023 3 hours ago, chuckdyke said: What is better in the game Personnel or General when you call for a mission in a forest? In the game I would prefer to use General for targets in a forest. The tree branches and foliage provide too good cover in CM. In CMBS I called a laser guide 120mm mortar shell air burst mission on Russian squad hides under a tree. The result? only 3 light injured. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Chibot Mk IX said: The result? only 3 light injured. That is just about what I would expect. You need a short heavy barrage in WW2 settings to have some reduction achieved. That is general the fuses took off with the introduction of the proximity fuse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brille Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 15 hours ago, humback said: And I tried some 155mm general rounds, they can't immobilize any tank either. That is wrong. Close or direct Hits can damage or destroy tank tracks. Those have to be pretty close though. 5 hours ago, chuckdyke said: What is better in the game Personnel or General when you call for a mission in a forest? It depends I would say. For maximum casualties I find airbursts more effective. Those trees will absorb some effect regardless if you take a general or personnel fire Mission. But with airbursts it can reach further (in my experience) and if the enemy Infantry is entrenched you can reach them better too. General fire missions I sometimes use on woodlines to cut a few of those trees down for better visibility and to carve up a few holes that my infantry could use as cover later. But keep in mind that the enemy infantry can use that too if they get the chance to swarm back in. To the topic if the armor target Option makes any difference: Well I gave it a small test yesterday and I could not find any difference to a General fire mission. I used 155mm Paladin batteries on houses and on Abrams Tanks. The armor firemissions exploded on the houses directly without any noticable delay,just like with General fire missions. The Tanks were unimpressed either. I only got system damage and a lost track here and there. The spread of the rounds seemed to be comparable to each other. Maybe at a stage of development there were more ammunition types planned and this is what is left of it ? Are there more options in the Professional(military) Version of combat Mission? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Brille said: Are there more options in the Professional(military) Version of combat Mission? That is what I need because effects in the game are not modelled. Only what we see when we are on the receiving end. But the attacking player can only guess and make an educated guess. I know a 25 Pdr can knock out a StugIII. That is from player's experience. Edited November 8, 2023 by chuckdyke 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Brille said: Maybe at a stage of development there were more ammunition types planned and this is what is left of it ? I think it is a leftover from the original Shock Force. In Black Sea if I remember correctly they dropped it and you have only General and Personnel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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