pre engagement recon

[cdplayer]

Hi All

Im playing the US campaign at the moment.  I thought I would get some tips for the third engagement so went over to you tube.  The guy I watched was able to see roughly where the Russians were using pre engagement recon.  It showed lots of rough positions with "?" marks over the units.  How do I get this ???  It would be a huge help. Is it a MOD ??

Cheers  Chris

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Don't worry, it's built into the scenario, you'll get it automatically. 

You might not see exactly the same thing as the contacts represent a percentage of the opposing force, the positions are broadly accurate at scenario start.....These contacts are generated by the Intel settings in the editor.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Sgt.Squarehead

[cdplayer]

Thanks for the reply.    I never see anything ???  Where do I see the intel settings ?? 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Open the scenario editor and select Mission from the main dropdown menu. 

In that section select Data.

You should see two entries:

Early Intel (this simply decides who gets intel, it's always one side or the other, never both).

Intel Strength (this determines what percentage of the opposing force will be displayed as tentative contacts).

[cdplayer]

Thanks again.  Im obviusly being an idiot.  So I open the editor.   If I click on the "mission" tab, then data I can see all the parameters,  but only for creating a new mission.  So I went to to load (right at the top of the menu).  The only missions I can see are in the scenarios folder.  Those dont seem to include the campaigh missions ?  Im looking for "The Outskirts"  mission 03 of the US campaign. I can see lots with the file tag .btt.  But they are the missions from the "Battles" tab on the main menu.  If I click on the saved games; Campaigns etc etc the folders are empty.

Ive got no idea what I am doing wrong. 

Cheers  Chris

[domfluff]

You're not doing anything wrong.

Pre-battle intel is something that's designed in to the scenarios. The campaign missions are scenarios that have been packed together (and carry over losses, etc. with a script), so you can't view them individually, without a third party tool to unpack them.

When the scenario does and does not give you pre-battle intel, and how much it gives you, will depend on the scenario in question. Typically it represents prior reconnaissance, which would only make sense against a mostly static position, and not if the situation was more fluid.

The actual system is set as a percentage, and will give you a number of random spotting contacts at the start. That might be extremely helpful, or it might be useless - that will mostly come down to luck. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by domfluff

[chuckdyke]

1 hour ago, cdplayer said:

Ive got no idea what I am doing wrong. 

It was explained on one of Josey Wales videos. More intel the sooner you can attack. You need to read the briefing. If there are only points for occupy and touch objectives on the back of the map with plenty of tentative contacts it is a typical attack scenario. Most scenarios are just variations of this concept. 

A typical AAR of an attack. 

 

[cdplayer]

Thanks,

So the guy I was watching on youtube who can see pre engagement recon on that 3rd mission of the campaign has used some sort of mod to unpack the campaign files ?.  It makes a massive difference to his ability to plan his troop movement. 

[chuckdyke]

12 minutes ago, cdplayer said:

Thanks,

So the guy I was watching on youtube who can see pre engagement recon on that 3rd mission of the campaign has used some sort of mod to unpack the campaign files ?.  It makes a massive difference to his ability to plan his troop movement. 

It depends on the person who designed the campaign. I never tried to unpack campaign files it is not the intention of the designer I think. 

[Baneman]

3 hours ago, cdplayer said:

Thanks,

So the guy I was watching on youtube who can see pre engagement recon on that 3rd mission of the campaign has used some sort of mod to unpack the campaign files ?.  It makes a massive difference to his ability to plan his troop movement. 

No, the level of intel available to the player would be set in the campaign ( probably per scenario ). If you play the same campaign, you should see exactly the same number of "?" on the map.

[Grey_Fox]

3 hours ago, Baneman said:

No, the level of intel available to the player would be set in the campaign ( probably per scenario ). If you play the same campaign, you should see exactly the same number of "?" on the map.

Not necessarily. There is a setting that determines the likelihood of any individual unit showing in pre-battle intel. If you redo a campaign, it's entirely likely that you could get tentative spots of more or fewer (or potentially even zero) enemy units.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Grey_Fox

[cdplayer]

Its obviously not as straight forward as I had hoped.   I have never seen any pre engagement contacts in any battle so always have to go in totally blind.  I think I might just start the mission with difficulty set to "mission test" so I can get an idea of troop locations.  Then restart with normal difficulty and use my vague memory of where things were to give at least a little help.   It does seem like a massive advantage to have even a rough idea of enemy positions. 

[Baneman]

1 hour ago, Grey_Fox said:

Not necessarily. There is a setting that determines the likelihood of any individual unit showing in pre-battle intel. If you redo a campaign, it's entirely likely that you could get tentative spots of more or fewer (or potentially even zero) enemy units.

Ok, granted I worded it badly - better to say "you would see some ?'s too", not the exact same ones.

[chuckdyke]

You see all of your Icons? Alt+I make all icons visible as it should be. Basic gameplay should give you plenty of enemy icons soon after you start. 

44 minutes ago, Baneman said:

you would see some ?'s too

Some scenarios you don't see any at some others they are a lure. Depends all on the designer.

[cdplayer]

Thanks all.  I have sorted it.  So far I have always played with level set to "Basic Training"  as Im still relatively new to the game.  It seems if you turn the difficulty up to Veteran or above the icons show up.  You would think "basic Training " level would give the most assistance to the player.  I just tested several battles and quick battles.  With difficulty set to Basic training NO pre contact recon.  With difficulty set to anything else contacts ARE SHOWN. 

Thanks for your help

[domfluff]

Hah, wow. Well, that's new to me.

[dbsapp]

48 minutes ago, cdplayer said:

Thanks all.  I have sorted it.  So far I have always played with level set to "Basic Training"  as Im still relatively new to the game.  It seems if you turn the difficulty up to Veteran or above the icons show up.  You would think "basic Training " level would give the most assistance to the player.  I just tested several battles and quick battles.  With difficulty set to Basic training NO pre contact recon.  With difficulty set to anything else contacts ARE SHOWN. 

Thanks for your help

LOL it proves yet one more time that Basic training is the most difficult setting.

It also gives player permanent artillery shower by AI.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

2 hours ago, cdplayer said:

Thanks all.  I have sorted it.  So far I have always played with level set to "Basic Training"  as Im still relatively new to the game.  It seems if you turn the difficulty up to Veteran or above the icons show up.  You would think "basic Training " level would give the most assistance to the player.  I just tested several battles and quick battles.  With difficulty set to Basic training NO pre contact recon.  With difficulty set to anything else contacts ARE SHOWN. 

Thanks for your help

Do yourself a MASSIVE favour, set it to Iron, now.....Then leave it there (at least until you have a real need to change it to Scenario Author Test).

Doing this will have no significant impact on the actual perceived difficulty (other than artillery and buddy-aid taking a little longer), but it will help you to learn how CM works a lot faster.....I strongly recommend you read this thread (several times) and experiment with the concepts it explains:

PS - Apologies for confusing you earlier.....I assumed you were more familiar with the games and were enquiring about the mechanics of pre-battle contacts/intel settings.