DEF BUNGIS Posted March 30, 2000 Author Share Posted March 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by -panzershreck-: ummmmm i get sick of americans thinking it was just them alone in these wars. i seem to remember a little organisation called the " UN " dont know if u have heard of them before... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I know what your saying, but we can't help it. It's our media. They pump us up. On top of that we are usually the largest force making up the UN mission. And we usually fork over the most cash to support the mission. But all in all, I feel the other UN forces get overlooked to many times. ------------------ Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted March 30, 2000 Share Posted March 30, 2000 Especially Canadians, who, if I'm not mistaken, have a sterling record of serving in UN military missions. Can any Canadian fill me in on their UN involvement? Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesy Posted March 30, 2000 Share Posted March 30, 2000 Of course I was being rhetorical. But, given where Japan was prior to the war (probably a bit higher than Italy in terms of GNP and industrialization) and where they are now relative to other industrialized countries is remarkable. Granted the US rebuilt Japan in the postwar, the turn around is no less remarkable. Japan's quest for empire was fueled (no pun intended) by the desire for economic/military/political power. Japan's GNP is the second largest in the world. It's military is strong (if not numerically but technologically)relative to her potential adversaries (granted no nukes)- N. Korea and China. Japan's political influence although may not be outwardly influential, it's economic power in terms of underwriting US Debt and loans/credit for third world countries is considerable. So did Japan lose the war? Of course, but it has, imho achieved it's strategic objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Posted March 30, 2000 Share Posted March 30, 2000 No,they weren't laundry and bath specialists! (But I see what you're getting at!) It was a supply unit whose main role was distributing supplies of food an medicine around the country, frequently to areas outside of UN control. Given the nature of the cargo, they would have made a tempting target for the militia forces, and indeed they made more than one ambush attempt on the convoys. We also had a SpecOps unit there, but I don't have overly much information on their activities. However, go to http://www.military.ie/arw/images/som1.jpg and have a look at the thing they were driving around in. Now <that's> some firepower. (3 LMGs, a .50 cal, an ATR and personal weapons, all on one jeep..) Take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted March 30, 2000 Share Posted March 30, 2000 Oops, sorry about that Ireland thing. I'm 1/4 Irish, there was no attack meant on them/us. I wasn't sure about the status of Ireland in 1916, seem to remember a picture in a book about the first world war with Irish troops standing under a banner stating "we neither fight for Kaiser nor King". This picture always confused me on the status of Ireland during WWI. Sorry for not connecting the Irish connetation to that of the Somalia operation. My bad! As for Canadian involvement in the UN Peacekeeping (and peace making) missions, my knowledge is of that we have partook in EVERY action with some sort of military aid. We even intitiated the FIRST UN Peacekeeping mission during the Suez Crisis with Lester Pearson saving the UN from destruction by France, Britain and Isreal. As for not knowing about WWII, well, I discover new things about it just about every other day. Sure, I know the basics, who fought and who won, but, there is still a HELL of a lot to learn. My grasp about every theatre of war is WAY better than the average Jo, but, I wouldn't call myself an expert. Mostly heresay, or faint memories from a book read long ago. It isn't the just the youth. Many older people know nothing about the war (ie. the children of those who fought in it). Sure, my parent's know who won, and who was on each side, but, they still have many of the misconceptions that popular culture insists as truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonS Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 Japanese economy: hmm, aparently its not doing as well as you'd think. In the last decade US companies have bought controlling interests in all the major Japanese car manufacturers except Toyota and Honda. So who's "winning" now? Regards Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Seimerst: the residents/warriors of Somalia were burying their dead for days. Most of what the public remembers about the incident was video of the body of the crewman being dragged throuhg the dusty streets. What you didn't see were the hundreds of their own dead and wounded.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> As much as I loathe being off-topic (and knowing this sort of thing leads to a lock-down) I have to say this: Don't you think that there's something wrong with this statement? After all, Somalia was supposed to be a Peace Keeping Mission set up by the UN to safeguard food supply points and distribution efforts. How do we go from that to house-to-house searches for weapons and trying to kidnap local leaders? (And before you flame me Seimerst, know that I'm a vet of the US military too --- and was active during Somalia --- and I thought the whole mission was a bad idea then too: It was like sending the Army into NYC and telling all the various gangs that we were there to restore order by taking away all their guns and see to it that food stamps would be issued properly... How do you think the Crips and Bloods would respond to that? Exactly!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEF BUNGIS Posted March 31, 2000 Author Share Posted March 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trooper: However, go to http://www.military.ie/arw/images/som1.jpg and have a look at the thing they were driving around in. Now <that's> some firepower. (3 LMGs, a .50 cal, an ATR and personal weapons, all on one jeep..) Take care.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hey tropper, I couldn't get the link to work. Please check. It could be because I'm at work. See what American tax dollars get spent on. Hehe... I will rty again later. ------------------ Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumbo Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 Panzershreck: You are correct of course about other countries contributions but the UN wasnt involved in Kosovo just FWIW. Also the US often shoulders most of the burden in these operations (with some notable exceptions such as E Timor). What is the saddest and sometimes most entertaining part of US/UN relations is that many US loonies regard the UN as "the enemy" and some evil style "world government" wherease Foreign loonies regard the UN as a "US puppet" organization. Poor buggers they cant win _dumbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesy Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 Jons, yes Japan is the biggest recession since I believe the end of the war. Also it is true that many US Auto manufacturers have taken controlling interests in all but Toyota or Honda, but my point was to illustrate that in an overall sense the Japanese have achieved their strategic objectivs imho. I probably would venture to say imho that Japan would not be where they are today if they had "won" the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudsterman Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 Hi guys. First of all, thanks for all the entertaining and informative reads. I've been lurking around for a while, but have never bothered to throw my thoughts into the discussions until now. Getting back to the original subject matter, I have an interesting antecdote. I once had a history professor who referred to NATO as the "North American Treaty Organization". I assumed she had made an honest mistake in her lecture and when the test rolled around I had the nerve to substitute "Atlantic" for "American". Imagine my surprise when the test came back to me with a big red "x" next to my answer! I was the only person in the class to make note of the mistake! Either everyone else was blindly following the lead (I pray this wasn't the case), or they were just afraid to complain. This may look like a petty complaint, but a professor of history should know what NATO stands for (just as a soldier should know the outcome of WWII). But don't necessarily blame her mistake on youthful ignorance, my professor would never be mistakenly classified as young Well, just my two cents worth and thanks for your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. Sosaboski Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 I'm 15 and I wanted SPR to be shown in History class last year for Memorial Day (studying WWII around same time), but teacher wouldn't. I understand though, DEF, I see all too much of it in my generation, and am glad to know there's Colin and Pzschreck out there . ------------------ Sosabowski, 1st Pol. Abn. Yes, I know my name is spelled wrong as a member! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 I checked that link, it worked fine for me. On Von Lucke's statement about putting the army into NYC, one of the articles on the CMMC recommended reading list (Or was it from the TacOps FIBUA discussion?) was a report on the effectiveness of the Brazillian army's operations in Rio de Janeiro (Or however it's spelled) against the local crime groups a couple of years back. They actually did quite well it seems. Anyway, good luck. NTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEF BUNGIS Posted March 31, 2000 Author Share Posted March 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gen. Sosaboski: I'm 15 and I wanted SPR to be shown in History class last year for Memorial Day (studying WWII around same time), but teacher wouldn't. I understand though, DEF, I see all too much of it in my generation, and am glad to know there's Colin and Pzschreck out there . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I guess that is the age I became interested in WWII history. But, is it necessary for youth to know about military history? Will it hurt if they don't? Do we need to force it down thier throats. ------------------ Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 I believe that WWI and WWII the two biggest armed conflicts of the last hunrded years deserve a mention in school... Yes. Even if it is as basic as who won or lost. If you don't learn from the past your doomed to repeat it. Lorak ------------------ http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/combatmissionclub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hundminen Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 Hey Pudsterman: Was she a blonde too? Seems like there's an awful lot of that going around. I wonder how many history teachers or professors ended up in history due to the process of elimination, rather than genuine interest. Just my $.03 (Canadian) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 I became interested in WWII at the age of four. Loved all the planes and tanks and stuff. Got the American Heritage Picture History of WWII as a gift when I was five. the book is, like, 600 pages long and is a 'coffee table' sized book. Tough reading and brutal pictures for a five year-old! One of the very first pictures is of a person liberated from a concentration camp. I don't even need to open the book to know what the picture looks like. It took me two years to finish that book... and it is still sitting on my bookshelf behind me. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEF BUNGIS Posted March 31, 2000 Author Share Posted March 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hundminen: Hey Pudsterman: Was she a blonde too? Just my $.03 (Canadian)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I wonder if there are ANY females playing combat mission? Or if any have ever posted on this board? ------------------ Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEF BUNGIS Posted March 31, 2000 Author Share Posted March 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madmatt: so lets just agree to disagree about this one and keep this topic from becoming another HAZMAT zone! Madmatt<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hehe... We all seem to be on our best behavior. I bet BTS is keeping a close eye on this thread. ------------------ Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEF BUNGIS Posted March 31, 2000 Author Share Posted March 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trooper: I checked that link, it worked fine for me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Got it. Nifty photo. I like how they got they got thier eyes blocked out. You never know. Funny....along sort of that same subject, I made sure not to throw my personal mail and envelopes away in the sand during desert storm. I took all my mail and saved or burned it. It may seem korny to worry about it, but back then I didn't want some Iraqi freak to be terrorizing me or my family years down the road. ------------------ Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren J Pierson Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hundminen: Hey Pudsterman: Was she a blonde too? Seems like there's an awful lot of that going around. I wonder how many history teachers or professors ended up in history due to the process of elimination, rather than genuine interest. Just my $.03 (Canadian)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Just to jump in for a second to defend my profession, but very few history professors end up in the field due to the process of elimination. (Sadly, I can't say the same for history teachers, although there are some very good ones out there.) Besides questioning why history is implied to be the default field (similar to: if you can't do anything else, anybody can do history) I must say that spending the 5 to 7 years to get a Ph.D. in the field isn't a sign of elimination. Certainly, she made a big, dumb mistake, but professors are only human too. I would be curious to know what was her field of speciality. There are a lot of them out there. Anyway, I'm not trying to excuse her mistake, after all, I do NATO history, but most of us do this because we love it, not because we couldn't do anything else. Unfortunately, we also have a lot of idiots that love the field too and got Ph.D.s as well. Not flaming, just defending the field. Darren J. Pierson (my 2 cents, adjusted for inflation) [This message has been edited by Darren J Pierson (edited 03-31-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 Def, those guys are Rangers. Our version of the SAS or Delta Force. You don't usually see SAS photographs without them being blanked out either. That said, the censorship seems to have dropped down a little recently. There was a pic on the front of the Irish times with our PM posing with a group of them, faces clearly visible. NTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudsterman Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 "Certainly, she made a big, dumb mistake, but professors are only human too. I would be curious to know what was her field of speciality. There are a lot of them out there." Slightly to her credit, I believe that she specialized in American Women's History. If I remember correctly, she only lasted one more semester there. Maybe she moved on to a school where she didn't have to teach intro history classes. Still, I found it shameful. I also disagree with the notion that history is the default field of failures. It is assumed that history is the rote memorization of names and dates. Granted, I have seen some people graduate with degrees that did little else. But the true student of history needs to understand geography, economics. psychology and politics. Very few majors require such an intensive knowledge of so many fields to gain just the simple background knowledge of the subject matter. Ughhh .... time to come up for air 2 more cents worth (de-valued by now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-34\85 Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 As usual everyone forgets that the battles in Western Europe were pathetic skirmishes compared to the titanic battles of the Eastern front. If the USSR hadn't absorbed and then virtually cut the heart out of the Wehrmacht on the outskirts of Moscow, Stalingrad, and Kursk and continued the campaign until Berlin was theirs (funny how the Germans didn't have the stomach to turn it into their own sort of Stalingrad) any Anglo-American campaign in the West would've been doomed to failure. Germany's excellent troops and superior equipment would have won (though I admit the invention of the Panther and King Tiger would have been unlikely if the PzIII and PzIV tanks hadn't been having such a tough time against T-34's) any battle if the majority of their fighting strenght was deployed in the West and not the East. So ... the USSR won WW2 (against Germany at ,against Japan the US kicked ass) ------------------ "The best way to clear a minefield is to send a squad of infantry across it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiloIndiaAlpha Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 Did you win or lose the American Civil War? A Brit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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