iggi Posted October 10, 2000 Share Posted October 10, 2000 I've gotten into situations where 1 or 2 squads move smack into a strong enenmy defense. The poor soles then get pinned and I know it's a matter of time before thier upcoming death. Sometimes it's just not worth it to support a tough nut that's too hard to crack. It's only a game so I let them fight and die rather than lose more assets. Does anybody know of US or Germans doing this? In other words, letting groups die on the vine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted October 10, 2000 Share Posted October 10, 2000 Although I can't offer any specific evidence, I suspect that this happened more often than we might care to say. Military folks can correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a fairly standard military adage that you should never reenforce defeat? ------------------ Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iggi Posted October 10, 2000 Author Share Posted October 10, 2000 I know that the Marine Corps has a saying that says they never leave thier dead behind. So I guess they would never leave thier troopers in that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted October 10, 2000 Share Posted October 10, 2000 Yeah, but Marines are crazy ------------------ Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundpounder Posted October 10, 2000 Share Posted October 10, 2000 The buddy system is essential to your survival. It gives the enemy somebody else to shoot at. Actually you try not to let your buddies down, it's very bad for over all unit moral. When your nuts are in a vice you would like to think your buddies are going to help get them out! In reality what usualy occurs is all other units in the area try to overwhelm the enemy with concentrated firepower long enough to extract said nuts from said vice. Sometimes a unit in dire straights will even call an arty mission right on top of themselves (if I'm a going I'm gonn' take some with me! ). groundpounder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted October 10, 2000 Share Posted October 10, 2000 Without conscription, a country has to entice it's citizens to fight a war. "We never leave our dead behind" is one of those things. The Marines are very popular fighting units for middle class Americans to join. Other countries may not be so comforting. Take the Russian T-72... Crew safety? Ha! If the tanks done, what good is the crew? Just different ways of thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted October 10, 2000 Share Posted October 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by iggi: I know that the Marine Corps has a saying that says they never leave thier dead behind. So I guess they would never leave thier troopers in that way?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Army Rangers are very similar. Of course that atitude got them into trouble in Somalia. Instead of leaving the dead behind they decided to sit and fight. It cost them. In recon or motto was MISSION first, MEN always. Go figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted October 10, 2000 Share Posted October 10, 2000 Paulus and the Sixth Army is an easy example of where a unit was left to die. After the failed attempt to relieve the Army, Paulus was ordered to hold and inflect as many casualties as possible. Shortly after getting pomoted to Field Marshall he surrendered. Out of the roughly 100K Germans taken prisoner at Stalingrad, 5000 were retuned to Germany in 1950. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundpounder Posted October 10, 2000 Share Posted October 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pillar: Without conscription, a country has to entice it's citizens to fight a war. "We never leave our dead behind" is one of those things. The Marines are very popular fighting units for middle class Americans to join. Other countries may not be so comforting. Take the Russian T-72... Crew safety? Ha! If the tanks done, what good is the crew? Just different ways of thinking. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh yeah, "We never leave our dead behind" was a real enticement for me! And don't think the US doesn't conscript, congress can fire up "the draft" any time they choose! groundpounder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted October 11, 2000 Share Posted October 11, 2000 Yes of course Groundpounder, you were in it for the big guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortarforker Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 being "left for charlie" seems to be a fairly common occupational hazard for infantry. I think in these situations troop morale will be the ultimate factor. Motivated, veteran soldiers might try to save their buddies regardless of their commanders callous, number-crunching decision abandon them. On the other hand, green troops might have to be forced at pistol point to risk their lives for some poor bastards they met last week at the replacement depot. I do think you owe your pixelated cannon fodder at least a smoke round or some covering fire to withdraw under. Then again, it's not like you can be virtually "fragged" by outraged troops, so screw 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Sedai Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman: Paulus and the Sixth Army is an easy example of where a unit was left to die. After the failed attempt to relieve the Army, Paulus was ordered to hold and inflect as many casualties as possible. Shortly after getting pomoted to Field Marshall he surrendered. Out of the roughly 100K Germans taken prisoner at Stalingrad, 5000 were retuned to Germany in 1950. Jeff Heidman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Didn't Hitler promote Paulus to Field Marshall because he said "a field marshall has never surrendered"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hiram Sedai: Didn't Hitler promote Paulus to Field Marshall because he said "a field marshall has never surrendered"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So it is said. And if he hadn't promoted him, the Germans would still be able to say that! Well, maybe not. Some other Field Marshal probably surrendered. Instead Paulus surrendered and was one of the German generals involved in the abortive attempt to raise a German division to fight for the Soviets from captured German troops. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 Finnish army has always had the tradition that no soldier should be left to the enemy, dead or alive. Of course, it was not always possible to retrieve all dead bodies and sometimes even wounded had to be left behind, but more often than not all soldiers that left for the battlefield also returned from it. During the Winter War this practice was very efficient in demoralizing Soviets. They were on advance and paying terrible price for each meter that they advanced and they wouldn't find any Finnish casualties. One veteran of Soviet 95th Infantry Division wrote in his memoirs the following lines: "During the battle we picked up a dead Finnish soldier from the shores of the Gulf of Finland -- for some reason he was unarmed (his comrades had probably taken his smg and knife). The body was transported to I batallion's HQ and left guarded in front of one dugout. During the night Finns killed both guards and the body disappeared. At the same time the batallion commander Burmitstrenko and chief of staff Lieutenant Colonel N.V. Pirogovski slept peacefully in the dugout without guards. They were lucky, it could have happened worse". The author was Grigori Garashenko who served as a MG gunner in 90th Infantry Regiment. He also writes that he lived for a whole month in a hut that was made of dead and frozen bodies - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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