Soviet tank regiments in FR

[Taranis]

Hello,

I noticed a change in the organization of the Soviets Tank Regiments since the new module.

Initially in CMRT, there was Tank Regiment [Mechanized] for Mechanized Brigades, Tank Regiment [Cavalry] for Cavalry Division and Tank Regiment [Independant].

Now we have, Tank Regiments 42, 43, 44.

Does someone had details on those changes (Red Thunder organization to Fire and Rubble one) ?

I think that Tk Rgt 42 (is something like State 010/267 or 292) and is mainly for Independants Tank Regiments ?
Tk Rgt 43 (maybe State 010/414) is for Tank Regiment of Cavalry Division ?
Tk Rgt 44 (maybe State 010/465) is the state created for Mechanized Brigades ?

I know that it's more complex than that and that organizations may varies and it's hard to say that Cavalry is always that State or not but if anyone has details or any additional information would be welcome. (Help Steve !)

To sum up, what is for what ?

Regards,
Thomas

[George MC]

5 hours ago, ironsturm said:

Hello,

I noticed a change in the organization of the Soviets Tank Regiments since the new module.

Initially in CMRT, there was Tank Regiment [Mechanized] for Mechanized Brigades, Tank Regiment [Cavalry] for Cavalry Division and Tank Regiment [Independant].

Now we have, Tank Regiments 42, 43, 44.

Does someone had details on those changes (Red Thunder organization to Fire and Rubble one) ?

I think that Tk Rgt 42 (is something like State 010/267 or 292) and is mainly for Independants Tank Regiments ?
Tk Rgt 43 (maybe State 010/414) is for Tank Regiment of Cavalry Division ?
Tk Rgt 44 (maybe State 010/465) is the state created for Mechanized Brigades ?

I know that it's more complex than that and that organizations may varies and it's hard to say that Cavalry is always that State or not but if anyone has details or any additional information would be welcome. (Help Steve !)

To sum up, what is for what ?

Regards,
Thomas

@akdis the ToE Jedi. 

[akd]

On 4/29/2021 at 4:14 AM, ironsturm said:

Hello,

I noticed a change in the organization of the Soviets Tank Regiments since the new module.

Initially in CMRT, there was Tank Regiment [Mechanized] for Mechanized Brigades, Tank Regiment [Cavalry] for Cavalry Division and Tank Regiment [Independant].

Now we have, Tank Regiments 42, 43, 44.

They are labelled by introduction year of the Shtat.  The idea that these were unique to different parent formations was erroneous.  Even in Mech Corps, all three Shtat were in overlapping use through 1945.

Here, for example, is an overview of Mech Corps' Shtat over time:

Soviet Mech Corps Shtat by unit.pdf

source: https://www.hgwdavie.com/blog/2018/8/25/soviet-mechanised-corps-iii

Quote

 

Does someone had details on those changes (Red Thunder organization to Fire and Rubble one) ?

I think that Tk Rgt 42 (is something like State 010/267 or 292) and is mainly for Independants Tank Regiments ?

292

Quote

Tk Rgt 43 (maybe State 010/414) is for Tank Regiment of Cavalry Division ?
Tk Rgt 44 (maybe State 010/465) is the state created for Mechanized Brigades ?

I know that it's more complex than that and that organizations may varies and it's hard to say that Cavalry is always that State or not but if anyone has details or any additional information would be welcome. (Help Steve !)

To sum up, what is for what ?

Regards,
Thomas

You can use tankfront.ru to look up Shtat for various units to some degree, e.g.:

http://tankfront.ru/ussr/tp/tp136.html

All the parent formations mentioned used a mix of different Shtat, but by our timeframe, the 1944 org was certainly dominant in Mech Brigades, and I don't think this one was used for separate regiment or Cavalry division tank regiments.  IIRC, a lot of separate regiments (as well as Cavalry Div. regiments) had by 1944 switched to 21-tank 010/463 and 010/464 Shtat. For this you can just rename a tank battalion. Still the older orgs remained in use in various places.  

Edited May 3, 2021 by akd

[Ultradave]

5 hours ago, George MC said:

@akdis the ToE Jedi. 

Geez I was just going to say this in the G41 thread. Beat me to it George

@akd = "Jedi Master of TOE"    Always amazes me the shear amount of detail he put out in the beta forums where all this is being set up/debated/finalized. Me - I just sit back and try to absorb.

Dave

[Taranis]

Thank you for your answers guys. It's exactly what i was searching for !

Thomas

[Haiduk]

On 4/29/2021 at 6:21 PM, akd said:

292

For CMRT timeframe this Shtat is already anachronism. Here is wriiten: "By Red Army General Staff directive №3/2305 from 4.03.1944 ALL tank regiments of 010/292 Shtat were transfrerred up to the 1st of April 1944 on the new Shtat 010/507": http://tankfront.ru/ussr/organisation/shtat/010-292_otp.html

010/507 of 21 T-34 tanks could be separate or for mech.brigades.

In the same time the tank regiment of Shtat 010/465 (introduced in February 1944) of 35 T-34 tanks existed ONLY for mech.brigades. 

There are Shtats 010/463 (21 T-34) and 010/464 (21 T-34-85) existed for line tank regiments - both also introduced in February 1944. But because of tough limit on the new units establishing existed, there are not so much units were on these shtats.  

Edited May 3, 2021 by Haiduk

[akd]

There are some questions raised about that particular Tankfront.ru reference here:

https://www.forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=196779&start=30

Additionally, there is a evidence that use of older Shtats continued despite conversion orders.

I did note above that 010/465 (tank regiment 44) was exclusive to Mech Brigade regiments, but that the others were not exclusive to any particular parent formation.

[Haiduk]

5 hours ago, akd said:

Additionally, there is a evidence that use of older Shtats continued despite conversion orders.

I did note above that 010/465 (tank regiment 44) was exclusive to Mech Brigade regiments, but that the others were not exclusive to any particular parent formation.

Thanks for the link, 010/507 turned out short-live Shtat, but anyway like 010/292 was substituted on 010/463 and 010/465. The table of Mech.units also shows that 010/292 wasn't in use since the spring 1944. But better to rise Bagration's OOB and look each Shtat of participated tank regiments.

[akd]

Do you mean the table in the axishistory forum link?  I posted a more complete table further up in the thread as an attachment (but this was from same author at axishistory forums).

Edited May 3, 2021 by akd