Guest grunto Posted July 29, 2000 Share Posted July 29, 2000 Is the Valentine Britain's fast tank? The Americans have a lot of fine armor. Check out the M-18/Chaffee combo in late-war. I think they called it, "Hell on Wheels." The American Abrahms and his batalion took out a slew of German armor in late 1944. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leclerc Posted July 29, 2000 Share Posted July 29, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JOCHEN PEIPER: Well based on the results of my last demo game... When my lone Panther showed up, it was good-night AMIS... he took out all the panthers except for one in about 2-3 turns... the rest was a mop-up job...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I propose you to start another totally stupid tread but just for maintening balance with your stupid to say the least ideas: GERMAN WERE FAR SUPERIOR IN MASSMURDERING CIVILIANS. I can't wait to listen to your ideas. Last point: my own grandfather was at Mathausen. At least, I can be proud of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack Posted July 29, 2000 Share Posted July 29, 2000 Ok, all of you are wrong!! You all overlook the country with true greatness in Tank warfare!!! JAPAN! So Germany,America, Britain GO HOME!!! Just kiddin' Ive read too many books on the Canadian campaign in Normandy to say that, at least in the 1st SS panzer corps {Liebenstarte Adolph Hitler[LAH] and the HitlerJugand[12 SS]} the training was better for thier tankers,possibly due to more experiance however, and they had better tactics and EQUIPMENT. The average SS Panzer Regiment had 1 battalion of MK IVH's which were at least equal to an Allied sherman and a battalion of Panthers which were at least better than a sherman, even the firefly. The Tactics were also due to experiance, but the Brit 7th armd Div {Desert Rats} even with thier experiance still got shot to pieces in the Villers Bocage area. I hope that ends the argumant of who had better tanks {if their was an argumant on that!?} As for Jochen Pieper, man for man the Germans were not superiour in WW2, nor are they now. Ill tell you why the Germans had success in WW2 {although they still lost} They had better commanders, Tactics, and equipment. The had better equipment because the Russians had better tanks than the Germans, the Germans needed to upgrade, and they did. The Good German commanders {at least against the Canadians in normandy} were mostly veterans of the Russian front. The better tactics in both offense and defense were born on the Russian Front! The Allies only had a slugging match in the Desert as thier only training in a "blitz" type war. And during those battles the equipment was somewhat equal. The tactics were not developed because the allies didnt have the expericace the Germans had in Russia. The commanders didn't want bloodbaths in Normandy so they were overly cautious making them predictable, making them lose. The equipment aspect was horrifying, the Governments of all the allied nations should have been tried for treason to send men out in crap. The Canadian tankers in Normandy would get thier tanks blown up by Tigers and panther 2-3 Kilometers away, and thier shermans had a very low chance of killing a tiger or panther when it is hull down on a ridge a kilometer away! The Germans only had expericance, NOT superiourity. Because, Man for Man it was whoever could stick the bayonet in the other guy first, and that was 50 50. Look at the Battle of the Bulge! Stalingrad! Falaise! Kursk! Berlin! Battle of Britain! Where was the German superiourity here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bad Ju Ju Posted July 29, 2000 Share Posted July 29, 2000 Fionn: Okay, I'm beginning to sympathize with you on that other thread about this board. It's enough to make you wanna follow Kevin right out the door.....Geeze. ------------------ "I didn't go to evil medical school for six years to be called MR. Evil." Dr. Evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Miller Posted July 29, 2000 Share Posted July 29, 2000 I just tickled pink JOCHEN is not using caps anymore. What a dumbass ------------------ "we band of brothers" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Hey, JP, you know, if I was born and lived in a fine nation like Australia, with a proud combat record and a history of an all-volunteer army, I think I'd be proud of my German heritage, but not spouting shodddy gibberish about wanting to be an SS trooper. Ever stop to consider how many American, Canadian, and Australian troopers were 'Germans'? Funny thing about Emigration, you get a lot of the volk coming home again wearing a different uniform. How're you going to fit that into your world view? ------------------ After witnessing exceptional bravery from his Celtic mercenaries, Alexander the Great called them to him and asked if there was anything they feared. They told him nothing, except that the sky might fall on their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Hehe Bad Ju Ju. Sad thing is, JP isn't even the worst example . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Tiger Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 What a stupid posting.... From people who only r interrests in armor and Gunpower.... You could never compared bouth armys... the alliies vs. Germans. The USA entered the Europe theatre after a time, the german had allready lost it. After 43.. they hade not enougth raw materials like gas, steel ect... The Air bombardment was so heavy, nearly all bigger faktories were destroyed or so mutch damaged, that nothing could delivery to the front troops in sufficient nummbers. Also the nearest railways and streets. I hade see Air pics ´from the bombed areas..damn nerver belived they could made any weapons there but they did it..with porblems but they did. Also the many fine Army leaders, killed by our best Friend Butt-head "AH"... And if we think "What if", when russia declar piece on germany and the hole army in the east turned to face the allieds in the west?? May the germans would not become back the airsuperiority but they would made it a little bit fairer for her komrads on earth. I say..the allieds would run away, if the germans do a bombardment on all the moves the allieds did. Like in the early stages of the invasion. How would they figth against a estfront-unit/army..?? What would you say how many soldiers r expericed from the hole 3,5 million allied soldiers in the west? IMHO not so many. Im not the man who sayd "the germans r the best" but i couldn also hear "USA hade won the War". I have great respect for the "normal" german soldiers not the one hwo killed civilists. All in all..im happy that we lost the war..and we could spoke about what if"..he he...and play computergames. And the other guys hwo thinked CM is the real war...and what happend in the game this happend also in the real war...please its only a game and far away from it. Greetings from a non rassistical german K_Tiger Please forgive my limited english.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Ooops! I did mean T-34, I thought something was up with the T-36 thing, wonder where it came from? Of course you COULD say that since the 7th Armoured was a veteran unit and suffered so much that they had inferior equipment, but, remember that their training was mostly of 2 years in the desert, and a bit of action in Sicily and Italy. Plus, they were on the attack, and got bottlenecked and nailed by long range AT fire. You may think that the terrain around Caen would be optimum for an attacking armoured force, being relatively open and all, but, you must remember that the cover avalible gave a defender a great amount of long range AT benefits. The German infantry had some great AT weapons, the 88mm and 75mm. British training stemmed from 3 years in the desert, where cover was little and armoured tactics were VASTLY different. You didn't need infantry accompanying armour ALL over the desert, but you did in a temperate zone. It just took the British a while to relearn this. The Mark IV was the german main battle tank, as it was the most common in all formations. The Sherman and Cromwell compared VERY well to this tank. It is only when they come against the odd Tiger and Panther do the Allies feel the pinch. Even still, Tigers and Panthers weren't quite as invincible as history makes them out to be. If used stupidly they can burn as well as any Sherman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Boy Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Good bit o ' Writing Major Tom. I just played a game as the Germans defending a village against a British battle group, I lost 2 Tigers 3, Mark IVs 3 Panthers and 2 Stugs. I blew the gun off a Churchill and that damn porcupine kept rolling right towards my infantry like nothing happened- a mobile machine gun nest. Churchills, Firereflys, Archers, and Achilles oh my!! I'll be having 17 pounder Nightmares for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SS Peiper Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Originally posted by Capt Miller: I just tickled pink JOCHEN is not using caps anymore. What a dumbass Man you said it!! Hey Jochen HOW OLD ARE YOU!! Have you ever read any Books on WW2?? That dont have photos...?? SS Peiper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest machineman Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 I don't think it was just the desert thing that held the British back... According to Dyer's "On War", the Germans have been better at war ever since the early 1800's. This wasn't because of some racial thing, but because they had spent the previous centuries in the position of the doormat of Europe, basically getting their asses kicked. Shocks of continual defeats got the generals sitting down and forced them to consider war as a technical profession, rather than a god-given gift or a rigid set of rules. Like any other trade, few things were certain, and most could be learned and improved as one went on. This didn't mean they were any better as people, but they tended to keep learning and not take so much for granted, and therefore their warmaking ability got better more quickly than the competing armies did, and they tended to be much more flexible at finding answers when things were not going their way. Anyway, it's an interesting idea, and from everything I'VE read, anytime odds were near even, Allies lost, usally from basic failings such as the inability to change plans to fit the new situation, leading from the back vs the front, etc. And so what if the Allies were not as good at war 50 years ago anyway? I doubt things are the same now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naja Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> What a stupid posting.... From people who only r interrests in armor and Gunpower.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Too many armchair generals... If you want to hear horrors, talk to the people that were there. My grandfather didn't talk too much about the gas attacks in WWI when I would press as a youngster. I bet he would rather have talked about TOW and the effectiveness of the MG 42. I'm interested in WWII because I can look a person in the eye that was there and hear the horrors of war. The dilemma is that it is so horrific that most veterans don't want to relive it. That is a loss to the next generation who can't even fathom the smell that soils humanity like burnt flesh and diesel, etc. Don't even mention the horrific screams of "children". Yes, let's sit back in our confortable chairs and thank god it's just a GAME when <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I just played a game as the Germans defending a village against a British battle group, I lost 2 Tigers 3, Mark IVs 3 Panthers and 2 Stugs. I blew the gun off a Churchill and that damn porcupine kept rolling right towards my infantry like nothing happened- <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> P.S. 2,000 vetrens are dying a day, each one has a real story that you wont find in a book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOCHEN PEIPER Posted July 30, 2000 Author Share Posted July 30, 2000 Yes i have read many books... But how do you know that any of it is true... Huh! Give me a person who was at each and every one of these battles and i might then believe it... Trouble is, the Allies made out us Germans to be evil. Did you ever stop to think that us Germans thought of the Allies as evil. On the German soldiers belt buckle it reads "GOTT MITT UNS" In god we trust... I am no NAZI, just proud of my heritage... and hey I can write whatever the hell i want... so kiss my ass. I have no idea why so many people took this the wrong way... GEEEEEEEEEEEEZZ! You all except for "PANZER_2ndSS" who saw the real and harmless nature of my posting, you need clinical help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 JP, While I agree that this thread got blown up way out of proportion, especially since you only posted ONCE and it was about the game, I think that the reason for this is your previous posts in other threads. BTW, *NO*, you can't say whatever you want. This message board is private property, not your personal stage for the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Edited due to the fact I don't want to feed the trolls [This message has been edited by Rookie (edited 07-30-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goanna Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 . . . then there was the day that I was less than totally proud to be an Australian (or maybe less proud that he is). Frankly, I don't give a crap if you are a neo-nazi, were cryogenically frozen, or are just a regular dumbass schoolkid. I'd even let you spout whatever revisionist ****e you'd like because there will always be at least a few of us here who are going to repond to balance fact with the lack thereof. (BTW thank you Major Tom and others for some illuminating FACTS concerning the equipment in this otherwise frivoulous thread) <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Trouble is, the Allies made out us Germans to be evil. Did you ever stop to think that us Germans thought of the Allies as evil. On the German soldiers belt buckle it reads "GOTT MITT UNS" In god we trust...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Don't give the yanks that much credit JP, the Germans who planned and carried out Holocaust made themselves evil without any help from across the pond. The least you could do is be a good littel storm trooper and actually LEARN German before popping off with impromptu translation. The quote is "God is with us", brainiac. ------------------ desert rat wannabe [This message has been edited by Goanna (edited 07-30-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Your both wrong. The slogan on the belt is in English...it's just poor grammar and spelling. The guy who made the belts wasn't too good at english. Anyway, it's supposed to say "Got Mittons?" as a warning from what the Germans learned about winter ops in the East. (This is a joke, in case you don't know yet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncounio Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Well considering their brilliant achievement in Euro 2000 , should be "German used to think the were far superior !" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JOCHEN PEIPER: Trouble is, the Allies made out us Germans to be evil. Did you ever stop to think that us Germans thought of the Allies as evil.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No ****. I always thought the Berliners were anxiously waiting for the gallant Soviet army in their shiny tanks coming to liberate them. But what I have found interesting is that when making the assumption that Allied propaganda is false, then the Nazi propaganda would be honest to the bones. Oh yes, there's no evidence of Holocaust, that is all just crap... but of course there is clear evidence of Allied war crimes that doesn't need to be mistrusted. JP, how do you know that the people posting on this forum exist? Maybe Steve and Charles are writing all these messages... maybe there is no Germany, or any other world outside Australia... Fortunately I know at least two sensible Australians for this hairless friend of man, so I won't say anything about how Aussies have treated the Aboriginals and the possible connection between that and the behaviour of this JP. Just an individual case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priest Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Let's see how do we know the battles really went that way? Well JP first off have you ever heard of the History Channel. If I am not mistaken they interview the Germans too. Oh wait but sense they have to use translators sometimes the translators change the story that's it. No No wait even better the war never really happened. No No wait we never went to the moon. No No wait we never even existed. See this is absurd. Allies won Axis lost. The History has been dissected enough. The general populace got a gloss story but for the most part you are dealing with avid researchers of the war. So use a little sense. Oh and I let one of my German friends read your messages on the board. His family is German. He lived in Germany. He is more disgraced by people like you than his ethnic history. He has gotten over it so should you. ------------------ Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb -Priest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 No Jochen, you cannot write whatever you want. You have agreed to certain rules when signing up for the forum and have to follow them like anyone else. Locking up this off-topic thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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