Following the Euphrates.

[chuckdyke]

Avoiding MOUT operations was the Key to this battle. Troops inside buildings was tricky as we had to preserve the HQ Building of the Syrians. I lost half a squad once I didn't receive return fire, they entered big mistake. Some body bags will go home.  

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Maybe you should add a 'Spoiler Alert' to threads like these? 

[chuckdyke]

1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Maybe you should add a 'Spoiler Alert' to threads like these? 

Sorry I am 70 would like to know what you mean

[Erwin]

When one may be revealing info about the mission that could spoil enjoyment of another potential player one should write ***** SPOILERS ***** above one's text.

However, in this instance it doesn't appear that any valuable info was revealed.  Also, the low resolution of the AAR page means one has to work hard to even read that.

[chuckdyke]

11 hours ago, Erwin said:

When one may be revealing info about the mission that could spoil enjoyment of another potential player one should write ***** SPOILERS ***** above one's text.

However, in this instance it doesn't appear that any valuable info was revealed.  Also, the low resolution of the AAR page means one has to work hard to even read that.

Yes, this site doesn't allow higher resolutions. For us wargaming was to find solutions for a problem to be shared. The solution was, to use the road as the route to advance. Analyse ambush positions breach the walls around the village with the Abrams 120 mm a battle will soon develop. The "Silly Syrian Counterattack" is the bonus. After the Abrams and a squad of infantry in the Stryker capture the 'Enemy's Headquarters'. The Squad in the Stryker was made useless. The building had to be preserved and using 5 turns of area fire with the Abrams .50 Cal was not enough to break the spirit of the defenders. A squad of highly trained Marines supported by the .50 cal of 4 Abrams suffered 50% of my infantry casualties. To capture buildings is my weakness in this game apart from changing it into a pile of rubble I would appreciate more suggestion. I will add the word spoiler next time. 

[Erwin]

Yes, your initial approach makes sense.  However generally, we players tend to agree that in RL one would demolish buildings from where enemy was firing effectively and killing our pals, and to hell with the points loss.  In most CMSF missions you lose a lot more points for losing friendlies.

This is especially true in campaigns where force preservation should be important.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Erwin

[chuckdyke]

On 12/29/2020 at 2:48 AM, Erwin said:

Yes, your initial approach makes sense.  However generally, we players tend to agree that in RL one would demolish buildings from where enemy was firing effectively and killing our pals, and to hell with the points loss.  In most CMSF missions you lose a lot more points for losing friendlies.

This is especially true in campaigns where force preservation should be important.

First thank you for your attention. Abrams Tanks don't seem to have HE and Cannister however I observed the following. Breach a wall with the 120mm and area fire inside the building with the quick firing weapon of an IFV or APC it is safe now for the infantry to assault. Their M203 grenade launchers to be used with the assault team. In SF2 Syrian infantry tend to surrender with little or no resistance. RL assault of Binh Ba Vietnam Centurion Tanks and M-113 did a similar tactic in support of a Company of infantry. The Centurion 105 mm had HE and Cannister for the operation. The M-113 had their .50 Cal. The Battle of Binh Ba: 6-7 June, 1969 | Army.gov.au

[Sulman]

@chuckdykeIt is the ww2 titles that gave me an understanding of the assault gun. I could not underrstand really what it was for, until I started regularly assaulting buildings with little artillery prep...Having a big HE thrower is very handy. It's a shame you can't open walls with them, like the breaching charges because that would open up many possibilities. Sure, you can blow out an entire wall, but that's not quite what I'd prefer. An infantry-sized hole would be great.

The Bradley's 25mm cannon is quite excellent for sweeping floors. Be careful though, it will easily kill your men (ask me how I know...). Make sure there's no AT enemy in the room as a covering Bradley will happily light the room up even with your guys in it. The Russian BMP-3's 30mm autocannon is similarly powerful, and that can handle tanks surprisingly well too. I'm a big fan of the BMP-3. Sure it explodes like a box of dynamite sometimes, but it's a pretty versatile beast.

[chuckdyke]

24 minutes ago, Sulman said:

@chuckdykeIt is the ww2 titles that gave me an understanding of the assault gun. I could not underrstand really what it was for, until I started regularly assaulting buildings with little artillery prep...Having a big HE thrower is very handy. It's a shame you can't open walls with them, like the breaching charges because that would open up many possibilities. Sure, you can blow out an entire wall, but that's not quite what I'd prefer. An infantry-sized hole would be great.

The Bradley's 25mm cannon is quite excellent for sweeping floors. Be careful though, it will easily kill your men (ask me how I know...). Make sure there's no AT enemy in the room as a covering Bradley will happily light the room up even with your guys in it. The Russian BMP-3's 30mm autocannon is similarly powerful, and that can handle tanks surprisingly well too. I'm a big fan of the BMP-3. Sure it explodes like a box of dynamite sometimes, but it's a pretty versatile beast.

The Centurion in Vietnam had a 105 mm the same gun as on the M60. That one was used to breach walls with it HE followed by Cannister Shot. 0.50 cal gave support for the infantry from the M-113. The drill needs to be rehearsed till it is 2nd nature. IFV their defense is their speed; people forget an Abrams on the move at full speed has more than a 90% hit probability at the ranges in Combat mission. Your IFV's travel in the formation of the MBT's. I figured out a drill in CM-SF2 which works, Abrams, Challenger or Leopards are versatile they are a jack of all trades. They breach walls with their cannon, IFV and APC's follow up in RL they can drive and breach walls further. Once on that stage infantry mop up the survivors inside. In CM the IFV's are just right up the wall they do the fighting. You should play on WeGo do the risky moves after a pause of 45 seconds and you can study your intel at leisure. When the enemy troops are in a fetal position your infantry storms inside. Apartment buildings: Boxing Barrage covers the sides and the back of an apartment. Take it from me whoever is inside surrenders your troops can remain inside their IFV's the moment the barrage lifts move inside. This works. MBT's fire their main gun for 45 seconds, the IFV for the full minute, you start the next turn see or the infantry can move inside. Artillery is the big killer, at Long Tan they won the day one Company (D Company 6RAR) vs a NVA regiment. The Forward Observer gave his own position as the TRP do it time enough to get out before you call fire for effect. In CM it comes automatically. I lost an IFV Warrior it bogged down whilst on full speed, little things like that can happen. On WeGo time your movements the crew could bail out and the section dismount in time. 

[Sulman]

CM2 throws up lots of realistic unfortunate events. That vehicle you really need will always bog or get knocked out. That squad will suddenly break cover at the worst time. That tank will spot a threat and start trying to reverse all the way to Spain. It's part of the fun.

HE seems to win urban battles. The Marines in Hue relied heavily on the recoilless rifle, either on its mule mount or as part of the Ontos vehicle. Well-entrenched HMG positions were usually dealt with this way. The LAW-66 too came into its own as a way to target floors across streets. Then other innovations like portable tear gas launchers helped breach teams (although such a thing did not exist at the time, they formulated as they went along) to get close to buildings. 

The NVA for their part made ample use of the RPG to varying effect, and of course their ability to entrench in virtually any position, even a lawn or attic.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Sulman

[chuckdyke]

Don't forget Forest Gump. "We went for really long walks looking for a guy named Charlie. Charlie, where are you?" The NVA had something in abundance, which was time. Time is what took away success in Korea and Vietnam. Eventually the taxpayer votes in an administration which will pull out. Also, the boots on the ground didn't have to win the war the other guys had to. Omaha beach was won because it was the only way out of the situation. Bastogne the same story just enough resources to win and the boots on the ground knew it. This a war game can never achieve. 

[Erwin]

10 hours ago, Sulman said:

The Bradley's 25mm cannon is quite excellent for sweeping floors. Be careful though, it will easily kill your men (ask me how I know...). Make sure there's no AT enemy in the room as a covering Bradley will happily light the room up even with your guys in it

In all CM titles one has to avoid whenever possible having friendlies anywhere near the LOF of anything from 50 cal up (unless the inf is at a lower elevation).  It's should be SOP to use the LOF/TARGET tool to see how close any friendly inf may be to the line of fire.  If too close, make sure they are moved further out of the way b4 the gun starts firing.

And even when one is careful, it's always surprising to me how often a friendly can be hit by friendly fire that is occurring 50m-100m+ away.  Also am suspicious of ricochets.  In one instance I recall having a lot of suppressive fire aimed at a wall while my inf assaulted a nearby wall.  They took a lot of casualties even though there did not seem to be any enemy fire.  Am wondering how ricochets are modeled in CM.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Erwin

[chuckdyke]

18 hours ago, Erwin said:

In all CM titles one has to avoid whenever possible having friendlies anywhere near the LOF of anything from 50 cal up (unless the inf is at a lower elevation).  It's should be SOP to use the LOF/TARGET tool to see how close any friendly inf may be to the line of fire.  If too close, make sure they are moved further out of the way b4 the gun starts firing.

And even when one is careful, it's always surprising to me how often a friendly can be hit by friendly fire that is occurring 50m-100m+ away.  Also am suspicious of ricochets.  In one instance I recall having a lot of suppressive fire aimed at a wall while my inf assaulted a nearby wall.  They took a lot of casualties even though there did not seem to be any enemy fire.  Am wondering how ricochets are modeled in CM.

I can't agree more, also if it comes to choices what do you select. The IFV or the Section of Squaddies? I selected the IFV the infantry section was outnumbered by what I estimate was a platoon. The recon had revealed troops in one building only. Only way to secure drive the IFV's right up to the wall to join in the firefight and keep the squad out of LOF of their cannons. The squad didn't lose anything of their combat effectiveness, the morale of the enemy collapsed. It is not the first time I used this tactic. I keep the IFV's always nearby.