JediJobu Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 Caution : potential scenarior spoilers!!!! OK, I pose a question to the honorable forum members. First, I know that there have been many threads on this area but I would like specific thoughts on this case. Sorry, but I did not save the game or capture shots (i'm not THAT talented). I was playing through the first battle of the "Drive to Mortain(sp?)" Operation. as the allies. I had driven almost all the way to the other end of the map. there is a crossroad there (near the top center of the map) which there is a building and a corner - kind like a L shape of woods behind the building. There was a german gun of some type in the corner of the L-shape of the woods. on turn 20, I already knew the gun was there and I had 2 sherman tanks, one on each side of the building, but none had LOS to the gun. My plan was to rush both tanks foward a bit in order for both to get LOS and have one take the gun out. I targeted the gun on both of them, even though they did not have the LOS at the time. I hit DONE and watched the film. initally it all seemed to be working fine, both tanks rushed up and faced the gun. Both then showed red lines to the gun and both had LOS. THEN.....Nothing....nothing....nothing.... I don't een recall them firing their machine guns at it. Then gun targeted on of the tanks, which took 3 shots and the 3rd killed it. Turn over, battle over, move to next battle with one less tank and one more german gun to worry about.... Notably I was ticked, but mostly puzzled at the lack of action by my tanks. Any THoughts? [This message has been edited by JediJobu (edited 10-03-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 First thing is this, before the more aggravatable members of the forum get to you: Anytime you mention anything with specifics (like gun placements) about a scenario, be sure that you put a big disclaimer at the top saying that there are spoilers in your thread, else you will feel the flames of Hades. Second, I would first ask how you ordered the Shermies to move? Was it a move order, a fast move order, or a hunt order? The tanks will not stop to fire during a move or fast move order. It will only do so under a hunt order. If this is the case then the tanks were technically doing what they were told to do - move to a specific location. Other than that, were the tanks shocked? Down a crew member? Gun damaged? Out of ammo? Having lunch? All these things will prevent firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediJobu Posted October 3, 2000 Author Share Posted October 3, 2000 Ok, thanks, I fixed the spoiler thing. to answer your other question, I issued fast move order then a rotate towards the gun. But the distance they needed to move was short and when the order was completed, that was when they actually had LOS to the gun. Both tanks were buttoned, I think one was down a crew member but both had intact guns and plenty of ammo. and none were shocked. they both sat there for about 40 seconds just smiling at the gun, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 well then the only thing left is the lunch theory. no real good explanation for that behavior. I think a court martial is in order for dereliction of duty...at least for the guys that lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ACTOR Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 I think there were a couple of factor that caused your problem. One both tanks were buttoned. This limits their LOS. Second you issued both a fast move and a rotate order. You would have been better off issuing a hunt command. The hunt command tells the tanks to move until they can engage a target, then stop. With fast move and rotate, the Tac AI will complete your command, even if you don't want it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediJobu Posted October 3, 2000 Author Share Posted October 3, 2000 I agree with the above However, both tanks had comleted their move orders and had the gun targeted, they just did not fire afterwards. that's what enfuriated me. Thanks for the replie's ya'll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 You say the tanks did not have LOS to the gun, but did they have LOS to a spot right next to it (within 2-3 meters)? If so, another option would have been to give them area target orders as close to the gun as possible and not worry about moving anywhere. The blast effects can still hit the AT gun, and your tanks will be safe from return fire. ------------------ Cats aren't clean, they're covered with cat spit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediJobu Posted October 3, 2000 Author Share Posted October 3, 2000 I did not think about that, but because the house was in the way, I had to move just to be able to get a closer shot in. But it was getting around the house that was the key issue. I also wanted to turn the tank to face the gun foward to have the thickest armor facing the gun. Hey....I'm a member now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 I recently had a problem with infantry not engaging a target. An enemy halftrack was approaching the remains of my company. There were woods on both sides the road. I lined the road on both sides, and set an ambush point in the middle of the road. The halftrack attempted to move down the road and my infantry enganged it with small arms fire and grenades, like you would expect and the halftrack reversed the heck out of there. Well, it didn't have anywhere else to go, so it tried 3 more times. I hid my troops and set the ambush the same way each time. The first 2 times the troops attacked and the halftrack reversed out again. The 3rd time the halftrack moved right on through and my guys just rotated on it and watched it go right by. Well, the turn ended and I manually ordered them to run after and target it. They ran after it and fired on it, and took it out with grenades the next turn. Just seemed strange that they would let it go right on by the turn before. I've witnessed this previously as well, except while manually targeting an enemy vehicle with infantry without using ambush markers. The infantry just refused to fire and instead decided to watch the vehicle go right past. Those were the only two times I've seen this happen. Maybe there's a logical explanation, but it seemed strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 Just nitpick: Vehicles with "Move Fast" orders can/will/and should still engage targets, they just will not stop to do so. I had a Sherman kill a moving Tiger with a 75mm shot to the side turret from 200m while the Sherman was moving fast laterally to the Tiger. It was sweet. When engaging big gunned German armor, firing on the move is often a viable tactic, especially with fast turret and gyro. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Sedai Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 I'm playing that operation right now and my little baby stuart did something to make me awful proud. oh yeah but I understand what you mean about that gun. It gave me mucho trouble until I figured it out. ------------------ "If you want battle, come to me!" - Lieutenant Worf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 I choose option C. "Sir, there's an AT gun up there in the corner building that's giving us trouble." "Can you get a flank shot?" "No sir, no clear line of sight unless we're right on top of it." "Damn. Okay soldier, level that building." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveman Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 I don't want to hear about it!! In a PBEM game I had an entire platoon... 3 squads of veteran British Airborne sit around and do nothing to a nearby Tiger. How close is nearby you may ask? The furthest squad was 25m away, while the closest was, at one point 5m!!! The only target in sight was the Tiger, but did any of them use their Gammon bombs... nooooo!!! For 2 whole turns they had plenty of opportunities to pop that tank... I don't think I've ever been so pissed off at a bunch of virtual men before! ------------------ “Fortune favors the brave" - Terence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr. T: I've witnessed this previously as well, except while manually targeting an enemy vehicle with infantry without using ambush markers. The infantry just refused to fire and instead decided to watch the vehicle go right past.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I've noticed this if the vehicle is buttoned up, even if it is open topped. I guess it's because there's nothing "soft" for them to shoot at. Ditto if there are passengers. If the vehicle is unbuttoned, infantry can target it and cause casualties to the passengers. If it is buttoned up, they will not target the vehicle and by virtue of the targeting rules, cannot target the passengers! I hope this is fixed in CM2! Close assaults are another story and I have had wildly varying results with it. Targeting a vehicle seems (at least in my experiences) to have no effect for doing this. ------------------ Cats aren't clean, they're covered with cat spit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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