Mattias Posted September 8, 2000 Share Posted September 8, 2000 Long time no post but here is one of the old school... In CM there are currently two versions of the JgPz IV armed with the L48 gun, one with skirts and one without. In my opinion this rather limited distinction (no buy point cost difference) between the models is not really enough to motivate the presence of two distinctive vehicles. Historically skirts were available from the very beginning of the production and all vehicles could easily have them installed in the field. However, this situation makes it very easy for BTS to introduce the late model version of the JgPz IV that in fact has at least one very considerable improvement, namely an additional 20mm of frontal armour (effectively around 31 mm when the angle is taken into consideration) . Beginning with chassis nr. 320301 in May 1944 the production PzJg IV's were fitted with 80mm armour on the superstructure and upper hull. Considering the fact that about 300 were produced with the 60mm armour and about 500 with 80mm armour it was no rare bird either. A very simple solution would be to just change the database regarding this significant detail. If a little more work is put into it would also be a nice touch to remove the muzzle break as it was quickly found out that it to an excessive dust kick up when the gun was fired. They were usually removed in the field and from May onwards they were not fitted on production vehicles either. Perhaps something to visually differentiate the vehicles in the game. Skirts are, as mentioned above, not dependent on the time of production but the Nahverteidigungswaffe on the other hand could definitely be a "late" production vehicle only item, to further differentiate that is. The ultimate "late" production type would also not have any Zimmerit coating as this was not applied to production vehicles after September 1944. Besides not having any real effect it was also rumored that it could cause fires to break out as the armour was hit by AP projectiles. Applying all these suggestion could leave us with two quite a bit more different vehicles, for example: Early: 60mm frontal armour Muzzle break No skirts No Nahwerteidigungswaffe Zimmerit applied Late: 80mm frontal armour No muzzle break Skirts fitted Nahwerteidigungswaffe installed No Zimmerit applied Of these only the armour thickness could be termed a must, as it is now there is a "significant" (everything being relative) vehicle configuration missing in the German OB. Luckily that particular aspect is also the least complicated to change. The rest are nice, more or less cosmetic, differences. All a bit like the differences between Pz IV models G, H and J Then gain, CM is aiming for perfection within reason, right Cheers! M. [This message has been edited by Mattias (edited 09-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted September 8, 2000 Share Posted September 8, 2000 Good idea Mattias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrapGame Posted September 8, 2000 Share Posted September 8, 2000 Mattias, Great post once again. ------------------ CrapGame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted September 8, 2000 Share Posted September 8, 2000 Good idea, well written and thought out post. BTT ------------------ Canada: Where men were men, unless they were horses. -Dudley Do-right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatpr Posted September 8, 2000 Share Posted September 8, 2000 there is something i hadn't thought about was there a Pz IV i model. I'm somewhat knowledgable about the Panzerwaffe but I can't recall a reference to an I model. Non illegetimi carborundum! ------------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apex Posted September 8, 2000 Share Posted September 8, 2000 This is a post that should be included in the etiquette FAQ. It is: 1) Well researched 2) carfully and humbly worded 3) adresses a legitimate issue of significance 4) very constructive 5) deals with one of my favorite vehicley in CM apex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted September 9, 2000 Share Posted September 9, 2000 Like this idea so much, I'm bumping it back to the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted September 9, 2000 Share Posted September 9, 2000 Hey, BTS! Lock this thread and ban Mattias! He is horribly on topic!!!! Ariel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Steiner Posted September 9, 2000 Share Posted September 9, 2000 Hi Matthias et al <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Abbott: Good idea Mattias.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I wholeheartedly agree, we have Super Pershings and Super Jumbos why not a 'Super Guderians Duck' Cheers ------------------ Sgt Steiner Belfast NI UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawyer Posted September 9, 2000 Share Posted September 9, 2000 Having just read some about the JgPzIV, I agree. It would be nice to have some choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted September 9, 2000 Share Posted September 9, 2000 Man, that had to take a lot of time to write. To get what you want, try using the PzIV/70(V) instead. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted September 9, 2000 Author Share Posted September 9, 2000 Thank you friends for the kind responses The beauty of CM is that it allows this level of detail to exist underneath a very smooth and user friendly interface. For those who care the numbers are (or can be made) right and for those who don't the game is just as fun anyway. Nothing super about this one though, it represents the majority of the production L48 JgPz IV´s and fills a spot nicely between the skinny younger brother and the later L70 version. After all, it is historically much more relevant than the 1 Super Pershing that saw action and just as easy to implement in CM. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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