Sgt Steiner Posted October 28, 2000 Share Posted October 28, 2000 Hi all have lately been playing couple Pbem games with several Minefields therein, however both my opponnents and myself are having difficulty using/deploying them effectively and would value some wisdom from others Manual states units will avoid mines once discovered and I suspect this could be way of channelling enemy movement ?? However I have witnessed Inf units walk through AP mined areas completely unscathed and other run thro same after intial casualties (usually only 1-2 men). Is the detonation of mines random ? Also what is best way to deploy mined areas ? spread apart slightly or close together ? Yours the real and original ------------------ Sgt Steiner Belfast NI UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basebal351 Posted October 28, 2000 Share Posted October 28, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sgt Steiner: Hi all have lately been playing couple Pbem games with several Minefields therein, however both my opponnents and myself are having difficulty using/deploying them effectively and would value some wisdom from others Manual states units will avoid mines once discovered and I suspect this could be way of channelling enemy movement ?? However I have witnessed Inf units walk through AP mined areas completely unscathed and other run thro same after intial casualties (usually only 1-2 men). Is the detonation of mines random ? Also what is best way to deploy mined areas ? spread apart slightly or close together ? Yours the real and original <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm not an expert, but I believe that units CONTROLLED BY THE AI will avoid mines once detected. Humans can have their men walk across the mine field all they want. As far as deployment goes, that's up to what you want to accomplish. If you want to inflict casualties, set up a few mine fields ON TOP of EACH OTHER to increase the density, in an area likely to be traversed by many enemy soldiers. If you want to "channel" enemy troop movements, spread out minefields can help to make the enemy soldiers or vehicles take the path that is NOT mined. Don't spread the mines out TOO far though, as it's likely that they won't cause any casualties, and may not even be noticed by enemy troops. As long as the mine fields are spotted by the enemy though, he will work to avoid, and go around them. -Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutPL Posted October 28, 2000 Share Posted October 28, 2000 I will cover this more in depth later in a tutorial I'm working on but here are the basics: Rule number one(actually the only rule): Manmade obstacles of any shape, form or fashion will only serve to slow your enemy down, not stop him. With that in mind here are some general guidelines. Obstacles are generally used to turn an enemy, slow him down so you kill him easier, or deter him all together. The key to obstacle placement is figuring out where you want to kill the enemy. In a defence in CM this should boil down to two or three engagement areas. These engagement areas (EA's) are determined by a well thought out terrain and enemy analysis. Put simply, your EA must contain the enemy's most likely avenue of approach. These are usually (but not always) the fastest, easiest terrain for armor and the one offering the most cover and concealment for infantry. EA consideration should also include good firing positions that offer cover and concealment for your units as well. In other words, that wide open field will do poorly as an engagement area if you cant position key weapon systems that can fire into it and still maintain a little survivability. Once you've selected your EA's, you can then begin placing weapon systems. Make sure that all weapons assigned to a certain engagement area have LOS to a majority of it. If you have weapons that cover more of it then others, place them with ambush markers in an area all weapons can fire into. This prevents them from firing before you're ready to bring all of your weapons to bear. Now, finally, you're ready to put in your obstacles. Never, ever place obstacles that you cant cover by fire, either direct or indirect. That defeats the whole purpose. If you put obstacles out that you cant see, your enemy can plow right through them without being harassed, or he can take the time to destroy them, unmolested. Turning obstacles are used to push your enemy toward your engagement area. In other words roadblocks and wire might be used to influence an enemy to leave the road and enter a field where he will be forced to move slower, making it easier for you to kill him. If he stops to clear the roadblock or drive through the wire then that will also slow him down, making it easier for you to kill him. Wire and AP mines might be used in woods to influence an enemy to use a particular stretch of woods to move his enemy up, right into your arty and MG's! One last word on obstacles: AT mines are set of by pressure, tank pressure. Enemy infantry will walk right through a AT minefield. Use AP mines if you want to restrict their movement. Wire slows down both types of units, with a possible bogging for tanks. Roadblocks serve as a block to both. Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted November 2, 2000 Share Posted November 2, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sgt Steiner: Also what is best way to deploy mined areas? spread apart slightly or close together?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Minefields and wargames are something that rarely fit nice together... The mine "patches" depicted in CM are so small that individually they can't be used for much. To me, a mine field is defined as the outer limits of an area with mines somewhere in it. In a QB I'd rarely get that many, so use would be limited to either road block or close protection for a static gun emplacement. One way this thread has spurred me to try is to design an operation with a real minefield, about one mile deep. Clusters of 4-6 mine patches spread all over the area, 50-100m apart. It's possible to navigate through the minefield without touching any mined area, but difficult if you don't know the location of the mines. Perhaps the mine field will use up the total unit limit. I'll let you know if I get to it Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted November 2, 2000 Share Posted November 2, 2000 If I ever use them i tend to buy a group and use them close by. One favourite is to drop them on suspected routes of advance, often in patches of trees. These can be patches that are particularly difficult for you to cover in force yourself. On defence I might use a combo of various mines and wire to block off the core flag areas where i generally don't put many troops, while a big force is massing on a wing to counterattack.. the obstacles can slow 'em down so if you're flanking you don't find you now have to charge the town you're supposed to be defending! PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted November 2, 2000 Share Posted November 2, 2000 A big ditto to ScoutPL's post. I consider the minefields in CM to be more useful to channelize the enemy rather than kill him mainly due to their small size and cost. Making a minefield dense and large enough to be truly protective is way too expensive for QB. If properly sited, they can both force the enemy units into your EA and/or once engaged deny them use of cover or escape routes from the EA. ------------------ Cats aren't clean, they're covered with cat spit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted November 2, 2000 Share Posted November 2, 2000 I don`t think the mines in CM are very realistic - accounts by US troops or such mines as Bouncing Betties show that this were feared by all. Still, I wonder if BTS would consider a purchase option for mines by Density. Maybe with a scale of 1 to 3 where 1 would be low density (30 points), 2 - Medium Density (say 45 points) and 3 High Density (60 points) - The radius would increase but just a little. In any case, if would give the defender some options and perhaps show how really lethal such minefield actually were. ------------------ No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted November 2, 2000 Share Posted November 2, 2000 Actually, in a game against Germanboy I was dismayed to discover TWO well placed minefields. He didn't have enough men to cover every defensive position, so, he placed two AP minefields in positions best suited for supporting an advance. One of my platoons was ravaged by a minefield in a small patch of woods I deemed pivitol for capturing his main stronghold. Unfortunately I lost a PIAT group, and around 3-4 infantry. He also positioned a minefield up on the peak of a hill, where I lost 2 more guys. Minefields AREN'T supposed to wipe out entire formations, but, what losses they do contribute are sufficient enough to warrant their use. Placing them in key positions can sway the outcome of the game (I did eventually win, but, after LOADS of casualties and having to drastically change my plan by not being able to utilize these mined positions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eba Posted November 3, 2000 Share Posted November 3, 2000 I've had pretty good luck with AT mines. It's something of a guessing-game to decide where to place them, but if you guess right, you can take out a tank without firing a shot. In a small battle, where each side only has 2 or 3 tanks, a well-placed mine field can make a big difference. Placment is a matter of studying the likely routes of approach and picking those that seem most likely to catch something. As with everything, it helps to be lucky. But, it sure is satisfying to watch a bad guy roll into your mine field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gezeder Posted November 3, 2000 Share Posted November 3, 2000 I agree that minefields are best placed where you Don't want the enemy to come through, so if they do, they pay the price for doing so.... They're a nice thing to put on the sides of maps if you believe your oppenet may try to move along the edge of the battlefield in an attempt to flank you - a few MG's to provide encouragement while they move through the minefield, and those troops flee the whole map! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Steiner Posted November 4, 2000 Author Share Posted November 4, 2000 Hi all Thanks for all the replies chaps some excellent food for thought Cheers ------------------ Sgt Steiner Belfast NI UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted November 4, 2000 Share Posted November 4, 2000 Hmmm... Hasn't been mentioned here so I will. AT mines are best use in one place and that is dirt roads. One AT mine unit purchased and well placed can stop an entire mechanized rush or armor rush. I put an AT mine at a cross roads and took out a StUG that if I didn't I would have lost the battle by now. But I just knew that at some point in the game my opponent would want to get armor units into the city I was defending. Since the town was on a hill the road would be the quickest way in so BLAM AT-mines right at the crossroads. Worked beautifully. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgivney Posted November 4, 2000 Share Posted November 4, 2000 Minefields, especially daisy-chain AT mines, are great for shaping the battlefield- especially in urban operations. A few well placed daisy-chain AT mines in a town will easily restrict armor movement (especially when your HMG and arty are pounding the infantry trying to clear it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrew Hedges Posted November 4, 2000 Share Posted November 4, 2000 It can be hard to use mines (and wire and bunkers) effectively in QB's because you don't know what the map looks like when you purchase units, and, if you purchase them automatically, the computer doesn't know, either. So if the map is open, there is not much you can do with your mines, other than hoping that the attacker blindly stumbles into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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