Capt. Toleran Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 NOTE: (Please don't consider this a rant against the game -- I love it, it's probably the best game I have ever played. I'm just frustrated at the short life span of my armored vehicles) I don't know what it is, but I always seem to get my butt kicked using tanks, except in the Pershing vs. Tiger mission, where I have persevered. I always seem to lose tanks to the dumbest things, like badly timed charges against other tanks, infantry, or unknown assailants. If I have a tank in a mission, I can almost guarantee it will be gone by the end, even though I try to prevent flank shots, keep them under cover, ect. Does anyone else have this problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 It's part of learning how to play the game. You mention "charging" your tanks. !!!! Are you serious? Well, FWIW, I never use a tactic like this. It's just that kind of thing that will cause you to loose tanks. And loose them fast. While the charge into the open they become targets of opportunity for the enemy. I use my tanks carefully. Using cover, proper facing, and I try to engage armor on my terms. I also stay the hell away from AT teams. PIATS are very nasty, as are all German units. Especially P-fausts. Last two QB games I played I didn't loose a tank, and I had one King Tiger wax 5 Ami' tanks and 3 HTs. In the beginning I lost tanks pretty quickly, but then I started learning how to use them properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 I must say they make very nice illumination devices on the battlefield once lighted, a state I usually achieve fast. Also, if my Poles had not so stupidly forgotten the marshmallows or brought some hamsters to grill, Ethan's troopers might be friendlier. Have a look at CMHQ, there was an article about tank tactics I while back. Maybe that helps/ ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banshee Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 Tanks in CM are (more realistically compared to every other game out there, imho) quite fragile beasts. What has worked for me (espescially when playing allies) is a small section of infantry for scouts on different parts of the battlefield. Usually I only expose tanks after I have a much better idea of what I'm up against. Also using view 1 and finding a good hiding spot which affords you cover from the front but allows you to fire to a small section to your flanks is really helpful in limiting exposure. Just my 1 weekends worth of gameplay advice. I'm sure you'll get a ton more =) ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudeLover Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 See also a recent thread or two on the 'CM-Tips and Techniques' board on this site. (It's much smaller, so you should find things more easily there.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major B Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 My tactics are so bad, I'm suprised I haven't had a mutiny yet. My tanks die fast. My soldiers die fast. For god's sake, I've peppered my own troops with artillery on more than one occasion. I'm what you would call an enthusiastic newbie at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatAWilson Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 Lead with your infantry, especially in close terrain and especially x 10 in towns or villages. In RL many a tank was waxed by a faust or bazooka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shatter50 Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 Hey Capt Toleran: I haven,t been playing long but I try to set my tanks on the flanks until I know the enemy and their position. With tanks on flanks eliminates chances of infantry and often do enemy tanks move on their own into my tanks sights. Their have been several missions where I haven't lost a single tank. But other times I have lost all armor units. But not often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grognerd_Fogman Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 I like to lose a tank or two early on. It gets my dander up so I fight real hard from then on to see if I can get a draw...maybe... ------------------ Thanks for Athskin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 my general 2 cents worth...never charge with tanks hehe...they are hugely more effective when kept at a distance as supression till u know where enemies are I win 99% of my quickbattles cuzza this...i'll be in a town and get a few armours with artty...then save some for the inevitible onrush of 3 billion infantry units the puter likes to pick. By the end, ALL their armour is gone for just that reason...AI likes to get too close to the action and hide behind buildings where i have a haust hiding. If they kept all their tanks afar on ridges..they'd do alot better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PatAWilson: Lead with your infantry, especially in close terrain and especially x 10 in towns or villages. In RL many a tank was waxed by a faust or bazooka.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Good advice. I try to keep my armor 200-300 meters behind my infantry (except for a few held back as close bodyguards for the armor). The infantry goes ahead to discover enemy points of resistance. The armor blasts it for a while and then the infantry close assaults. Large concentrations of the enemy get worked over by artillery first, while I am maneuvering forces to take care of them. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrD Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 During my recent spate of reading on WW2 one thing I learned was that tanks were often alot more, shall we say, shy than you might think. There are numerous examples of tank units deserting infantry because they felt the going was too tough. The moral of the story is treat the tanks like the eggshells they really are! If you use them the way they were supposed to be used they will die. If, however, you use them like a tender virgin (gently for you young'uns) they will do as much good for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grunto Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt. Toleran: I always seem to lose tanks to the dumbest things, like badly timed charges against other tanks, infantry, or unknown assailants. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If you're charging into the unknown, try to charge "through" rather than "into." Hopefully some of your vehciles will be alive and in the clear behind them when it's over. Yes, in DYOs I buy lots of cheap vehicles so the battlefield is usually littered with wrecks by the end. Sometimes, his, sometimes mine, most of the time both. When you charge your tanks you should charge halftracks and jeeps along with them, so they can also add suppression fire and confuse the enemy gunners. The .50 cal is a great weapon. Try to bring some infantry along as passengers on your charging tanks and other vehicles. When you fail you will fail miserably. When you succeed you will succeed brilliantly, but then again most of the time it's just a big mess. =laugh= Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spcwrnglr Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 I personally like to use tanks on mop up duty. In the beginning of a battle, I keep them back, taking long range shots from the rear over the heads of my infantry which is advancing slowly, but fast enough to slowly increase the pressure on the entrenched enemy. Once those krauts start running, in come the tanks from the flanks to mop everything up. A great way to make sure any men you don't kill don't feel like fighting anymore. Its a big game of leapfrog. With bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Captain Foobar* Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I've peppered my own troops with artillery on more than one occasion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh , thats actually in the first chapter of my playbook. My men live in fear of their own arty, as I always bring in fire on my own position when I am being close assaulted. "Now THOSE WERE MY OWN GUYS and see what I did to THEM!!! Just think what Im gonna do to YOURS!!!!" Really strikes fear into my PBEM opponents....Who is that snickering out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisl Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 Do a search under "tophat" or "lowsky" for a useful tank tactic (I could repeat it all, but the search should find it, though you'd never guess to search on those words). Also, as to the tank charges: As Grunto said, if you have to charge, charge through. Do it by plotting orders all the way from where you start to where you want to finish, even if it's likely to be several turns worth. Unless it's wet or muddy your tanks should be in "fast", "hunt", or "reverse". Forget about move, it makes you a target. When I charge I like to use fast with very short segments of hunt in between (to take the shots). I can attest to the messiness of his tactics--I've played him several times, and both used and suffered the messy charges. Against something with a slow turret when you have a fast one: plot a whole circle around it in the direction that causes it to have the longest possible traverse to get you, and stay in *close*. Don't cross in front of the gun though...could hurt. When moving into the unknown: as described above, infantry first, tanks behind (or even hidden). Once you have a pretty good idea that the enemy AT capabilities have been exposed, then you can charge if you really must. In cities: infantry first to draw fire, and clear all the buildings, keep the tanks at least 200 m back to level the buildings that are occupied (thus protecting the infantry). Watch out for things popping up on side streets-- go fast through intersections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 I think i'm becoming methodical and boring by everyone elses standards here! Charging?! Pah! I tend to keep my tanks and inf. very close together. That said, I always have scouts. Things tend to go like this.. a squad from two dif. platoons is split and they act as forward recon.. checking bushes for the bad guys. The rest of the platoon and say a baz follow up in support. Behind them will be perhaps the third platoon of the company and support elements. Other infantry could be on the left and right flanks moving up where the recon clear. With the third platoon of the first company I generally have a tank or two. It's keeping its eye out for opportunities and ONLY pops out when it sees something to zap. Any 'specials' will be with it for protection, (flame tanks/HTs). Further back or in a similar role with the other platoons will be the rest of my armor. The end result is you can hit and hit hard when you spot anything. eg. in a game I'm playing right now a recon discovered a mortar team, and another reacon an entire platoon of inf. dug in. Immediately a slight move of my tanks brought the 'lead' tank and a StuH42 (?) to bear. The support platoon were covering the advance of the rest of hte company and they also got to shoot. For two minutes it was sheer hell. I lost most of the recon, but he lost an entire platoon. Previously a recon discovered an enemy platoon and my flame HT was dispatched to deal with them.. hehe.. one squirt and a squad broke, the other two were eliminated by the second platoon moving up to reinforce the recon elements. This kind of technique is tried and tested on the advance, and gives you a lot of flexibility. Key points: Keep those tanks out of their sight! You want to pop out then return for cover! If you're lucky, an impatient enemy will try and engage your tanks and put himself in a vulnerable position. Head to head tank duals, while amusing to watch, never go your way when you need them! With your tanks close, but in cover, when you spot an enemy if you're lucky he won't be looking at you. If not, your troops can make him button, (they spotted him right? They can shoot at him), and your tank can peek around the corner and take a couple of 'safe' shots. Give it a go PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanco Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 Captain Foobar said : "Now THOSE WERE MY OWN GUYS and see what I did to THEM!!! Just think what Im gonna do to YOURS!!!!" Really strikes fear into my PBEM opponents....Who is that snickering out there? It's me, and it's not snickering, It's laughing my ass off I'm doing. Seriously, after having seen a made for TV movie about Rommel and several reruns of The Rat Patrol, I thought I knew how to maneuver tanks. Several humiliations later showed me otherwise. Someone somewhere else said, "eggshells with hammers" and I think that's a pretty good description. It's not like infantry that (usually) wears down gradually. One minute you're king of the battlefield, then your tank dies, and next minute you're saving your men's asses any way you can. Sort of all or nothing with tanks. DeanCo-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 Like someone said above, scout the enemy positions before committing (read: "revealing") your armor. Plot their moves as you would for a sniper. Let them peak over a ridge (forces you to use a hulldown position), peak through a gap in the woods, etc and take a quick shot. Then, back up and relocate. Once you're confident that you've eliminated most of the enemy armor, you can move them up to support your infantry in relative safety - but still put them in good defensive positions at arms length from enemy infantry. Your tanks have big guns, so there's no need to get in close to the crunchies. Last but not least, DON'T EVER PARK YOUR TANKS ON TOP OF HILLS! Hawk, please write the sentence above 100 times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 Yeah. I love tanks tho. Like seeing them work.. mm *dreams*. anyway. Some more points. Capt. Toleran, if you want to try a PBEM against me with a lot of tanks, go for it. i'm not brilliant, I don't think, but I can hold me own. Also I think it's important to plan in terms of phase lines and where you want to be. At the moment I'm assaulting a town in a big game I'm in. I have some pretty solid arty support ready to fly, so I want to use it to soften up the town. There's a line of trees pretty much, across the map between me and hte town, (as well as usual light hill and so on). Well, guess what my plan is? Make it up to those trees, carefully. Then see what's their, nuke the SH*T out of it, smoke and advance. It's not a very clever plan, but I've executed it well, and so far it's going good. Always try to have a plan in mind, combine your armor and inf might.. and go for it! PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 I would just like to add to all of this great advice that you should try to concentrate your armour assets in order to multiply your firepower. Engaging enemy armor in ones and twos is a great way to loose tanks. Also use over watch tactics. By this I mean dividing your tanks into two groups with one group assuming hull down positions while your second group advances. Then you leapfrog them and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankDawg Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 Manheim Tanker, you wrote: "DON'T EVER PARK YOUR TANKS ON TOP OF HILLS! Hawk, please write the sentence above 100 times " I think you need to write that 200 times. What were you doing skylining those Hetzers against me? I think Eishenhower back in London saw those things up on the hill. Could not resist. Jeff TankDawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 LOL! That's what happens when the map generator sets you up on the Matterhorn. My MLR is on a friggin cliff and there's probably 2 trees for them all to hide behind. I could have really used that "Predator" stealth system that was talked about in an earlier thread Edit: I'm writing my punishment assignment over lunch [This message has been edited by Mannheim Tanker (edited 08-22-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 Mannheim Tanker, Three words of advice: Reverse Slope Defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted August 22, 2000 Share Posted August 22, 2000 Good point, Fionn. I learned THAT lesson in this PBEM Guess I was just a bit too eager to take on my opponent, and the crazy map didn't help any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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