M. Bates Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 Take the average meeting engagement map. There will be a big hill somewhere in your setup zone. The logical thing to do is to put an arty spotter up there and call down fire onto the enemy, right? Well what happens when I do this, is I get the benefit of increased visibility across much of the battlefield. But on the downside there is a sizeable chance that the enemy player will bring down an artillery barrage on the hill top and kill my arty FOs. So exactly what is the downside of calling in artillery blind?? I haven't noticed much more time in getting the shells onto target when clicking onto areas I want to fire upon. And when I adjust the fire, even though the arty FO has no line of site, I only loose around 7 or 10 seconds before the fire re-commences again. Do most other people find this a more effective use of artillery? I concede that there are downsides, but surely alive FOs are better than dead ones!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 The other downside is that the spread on the shells is larger, so it's tougher to concentrate fire on an enemy location, ie. you miss a lot. If you're careful with your FO, it shouldn't be a problem. Get him into cover. You'd have to have a lot of artillery to blast away at a hill, or one lone man on a hill. It's a job better reserved for a scout car or something. ------------------ WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! - THIS SIG FILE BELONGS TO A COMPLETE FOO. MR T WOULDN'T BE SO KIND AS TO WRINKLE AN EYEBROW AT THIS UNFORTUNATE BEING. PLEASE OFFER HIS PARENTS AND COHABITANTS ALL SYMPATHY POSSIBLE. MAY BE CONTAGIOUS. CONTAINS ARTIFICIAL SWEETNER, INTELLIGENCE AND WIT. STAND WELL CLEAR AND LIGHT WICK. BY ORDER PETERNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Sedai Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 I've also noticed that using a platoon leader in command of your spotter increases the surviveability of the spotter. Croda is correct in stating that you see a difference in how the rounds land when you have eyes on objective vs a general area. Plus, his sig is obviously quite funny and it must suck to be him. my .02 ------------------ Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted December 12, 2000 Author Share Posted December 12, 2000 Yeah but it's difficult to get good LOS a lot of the time. In future, if I have say 4 platoons and 2 spotters, I'll have the spotter moving a slight distance behind, ready to call down fire. Infantry engagements in any case take a turn or two to get going, which allows for enough time for the artillery to be the deciding factor. As soon as I get one aspect of CM right, I forget another... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M. Bates: In future, if I have say 4 platoons and 2 spotters, I'll have the spotter moving a slight distance behind, ready to call down fire. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ...or behind them on high ground ...or off alone on a flank with some small unit as security ...or snuck ahead just behind the recon element to get good LOS There are a number of options. ------------------ WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! - THIS SIG FILE BELONGS TO A COMPLETE FOO. MR T WOULDN'T BE SO KIND AS TO WRINKLE AN EYEBROW AT THIS UNFORTUNATE BEING. PLEASE OFFER HIS PARENTS AND COHABITANTS ALL SYMPATHY POSSIBLE. MAY BE CONTAGIOUS. CONTAINS ARTIFICIAL SWEETNER, INTELLIGENCE AND WIT. STAND WELL CLEAR AND LIGHT WICK. BY ORDER PETERNZ Damn Croda. That is one funny sig!!! must suck to be you - Hiram Sedai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Callmeyer Posted December 13, 2000 Share Posted December 13, 2000 I like to keep my spotters in cover and to the rear till a tough enemy position has been developed by my infantry or Inf and armour. Then I bring my spotter up just behind the firing line, still in fairly good cover but able to see the enemy positions, or at least a with a clear view to patch of ground immediately adjacent to the enemy's position. Of course you may also be able to come up close behind a leader in direct view under these circumstances. Then you can let loose with good control over your arty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted December 13, 2000 Share Posted December 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Callmeyer: I like to keep my spotters in cover and to the rear till a tough enemy position has been developed by my infantry or Inf and armour. Then I bring my spotter up just behind the firing line, still in fairly good cover but able to see the enemy positions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What works really well for me is putting the spotter behind a tall building. That way no one can see him. If I see a good target, I sneak him up to the top story. This works much better than just putting him in the top story right from the beginning, because people often area target these important buildings right away in the hope that there's a spotter up there. Read Fionn's Close Terrain AAR on CMHQ for an example of this. Fionn put his spotters in the buildings, and lost a bunch of 150mm arty because of it. Granted, I get a little more delay from having them move up, but it's well worth the added saftey. ------------------ Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. -Commercial fishing in Kodiak, Alaska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorBeef Posted December 13, 2000 Share Posted December 13, 2000 what happens if you call in arty out of LOS, but achieve LOS to your target before the timer runs out? are the shots spread as if it was a non-LOS call? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pucker Posted December 13, 2000 Share Posted December 13, 2000 I have found (with the new patch anyway). That you can assign a target while out of LOS and during the next move move into LOS. This is espceially useful when it takes several minutes to bring down any fire. Note: Note you need to balance having your FO ready with LOS or out of the way in cover. Basically there will be an increased delay in calling arty strikes if you have your FO hidden. Thus by the time you have him ready your target may have gone or dispersed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skott Karlsson Posted December 13, 2000 Share Posted December 13, 2000 I've noticed that no matter how far or how close or how much cover I place my spotters in the enemy quickly discovers them and throws everything from small arms fire to tank fire at them. I'm still working on getting the hang of keeping my spotters alive long enough to do their job. ~Skott~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Fredriksson Posted December 13, 2000 Share Posted December 13, 2000 I'm getting a little confused here. Are you saying that if you have an FO, with no HQ within command, he can actually order arty to a place out-of-LOS?! I thought I had tried that but only got the answer "out-of-LOS", and targetting not possible. Which I thought to be a flaw in the game. I mean, in real life you can call arty to wherever, but the result may not be good if you don't have an FO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GI Tom Posted December 13, 2000 Share Posted December 13, 2000 Stefan, What your probably talking about are mortar's themselves versus FO's. With an actual Mortar team, you cannot have them fire Indirectly anywhere on the map. They have to have a LOS or have their commanding HQ have a line of sight to do this. But with an actual FO, you can call in a strike anywhere on the field. Now, the accuracy of that strike is drastically reduced of course with no LOS. I've used it in emergency's only where I've had to call in Arty without a LOS. I've gotten fairly competent in getting a "feel" for where my FO's need to be in relation to the enemy and my own forces. Scouting the terrain out is the best recommendation I can give. During setup phase, it's not uncommon for me to move the placement of my FO's several times and check the LOS's they have. Or, look at a view from some terrain that's outside of my DZ to see where an even better place might be. Hope that helps. GI Tom ------------------ To a New Yorker like you, a hero is some type of wierd sandwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted December 13, 2000 Author Share Posted December 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I have found (with the new patch anyway). That you can assign a target while out of LOS and during the next move move into LOS. This is espceially useful when it takes several minutes to bring down any fire. Note: Note you need to balance having your FO ready with LOS or out of the way in cover. Basically there will be an increased delay in calling arty strikes if you have your FO hidden. Thus by the time you have him ready your target may have gone or dispersed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So THAT'S how you destroyed 6 of my Shermans for no loss on your part!! BTW my surrender should be winging towards your email inbox about now. ------------------ Great Quotes Maximus: "And what's that Rob? The rest of the world doesn't care? I can assure you that when Boris Yeltsin stepped down in Russia last New Years, the world cared. Oh wait, you live in Canada. That's right, Canada only cares 'aboot' Canada. The whole world could be on the brink of destruction and as long as Canadian soil isn't involved, they could care less. Does the phrase, "Isolationist China" mean anything to ya?" Rob/1: "Lets just say I dont like americans ok... if you have a prolbem with that Minumis is one of the resions." jshandorf: "Suck" jshandorf: "How about Stephen Hawkins! Yeah! I would kick his skinny, whellchair ass any day of the week! Bring it on roller boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Fredriksson Posted December 14, 2000 Share Posted December 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GI Tom: ... Scouting the terrain out is the best recommendation I can give. During setup phase, it's not uncommon for me to move the placement of my FO's several times and check the LOS's they have. Or, look at a view from some terrain that's outside of my DZ to see where an even better place might be. Hope that helps. GI Tom <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks Tom. This is great news, since it was the only real "bug"/flaw/etc I have found in the game (that FO's couldn't order arty to spots out-of-LOS). I must early in my CM career read/tried firing with mortars indirectly. And when that didn't work, I guess I thought it applied for FOs aswell. Well, this certainly changes things!! At least two of my pbem-opponents are in for nasty surprises. he he he Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted December 14, 2000 Share Posted December 14, 2000 Bates, I wouldn't have thought you had a choice in the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted December 14, 2000 Share Posted December 14, 2000 Bates, It takes twice as long for the artillery to come in if your FO does not have LOS to the target. Look at the timer countdown when you have your FO selected, it will tick twice as slow. In other words, one second will tick off for every two seconds of real time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted December 14, 2000 Author Share Posted December 14, 2000 Pak, I am positive that I have had times of a minute when calling artillery blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 You're correct, I've seen that with mortars. But, as I said above the clock ticks twice as slow. If the clock says 50 seconds and your FO doesn't have LOS to the target, then it will actually take 100 seconds (appoximately). Read the rule book if you don't believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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