Interface needs work.

[John]

Sorry if this seems like nitpicking, but I have a few minor gripes with the interface (I'm playing the demo, by the way).

1 - It can be a bit hard to find a particular unit. A Close Combat style roster would work well, especially with the 'lock cam to unit' command (CTRL-click)

2 - It can be hard to keep track of where the units are going. Perhaps a dot could appear on the landscape - again like Close Combat.

3 - When you move multiple units, do they have to stick to formation so rigidly. I keep moving platoons through woods or behind buildings, and units end up in the middle of open ground.

4 - Perhaps a tactical map?

5 - Infantry units riding on tanks is great, but why can't they shoot while doing this?

[jeffsmith]

INCOMING !!!!!

[Capt Miller]

flame........on

------------------

"we band of brothers"

[Maastrictian]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

Sorry if this seems like nitpicking, but I have a few minor gripes with the interface (I'm playing the demo, by the way).

1 - It can be a bit hard to find a particular unit. A Close Combat style roster would work well, especially with the 'lock cam to unit' command (CTRL-click)

2 - It can be hard to keep track of where the units are going. Perhaps a dot could appear on the landscape - again like Close Combat.

3 - When you move multiple units, do they have to stick to formation so rigidly. I keep moving platoons through woods or behind buildings, and units end up in the middle of open ground.

4 - Perhaps a tactical map?

5 - Infantry units riding on tanks is great, but why can't they shoot while doing this?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's my advice:

1. Don't forget that shift C will enlarge units and shift B will add color coded bases to them.

2. I belive shift P will move between a bunch of options involving seeing all units movement and fire orders. Its either that or shift O. Check the hotkey listing (click on the bottom of the screen)

3. You can move each squad individually, there is no need to move whole platoons at a time.

4. Zooming out to a top down view and using bases (shift will provide basically this.

5. Don't forget that the three men in a squad represent 8-12 guys hanging on for dear life as the tank thunders along the road at 30mph. Perhaps a few guys in a squad could fire from the back of a tank... but how accurate would they be?

Hope this helps!

--Chris

[John]

Something else I thought of. Why is it that infantry can walk through walls? (I'm still trying out the demo, so shoot me if this has been fixed for the final release) Close Combat had the same thing.

And has any one else noticed that vehicles only have a collision detection point in the centre? I once had a tank drive halfway into a building, then realise what a plonker it was being, and decided to drive round. And what about deformable terrains. Tanks driving through lighter walls and such?

Also, not QUITE realtime, is it? I ordered a rifle squad to embark a Sherman and the tank to fast move, but the infantry squad waited until the tank was halfway across the battlefield before chasing after it. Hmmm.

[John]

Thanks to Maastrictian for your advice. I'll try it out.

As for the unit moving thing, I have been moving them individually, but it gets tedious.

Here's an idea: what about if you hold down a key and that tells the units not to hold formation, but to seek cover, or regroup or something?

[FunkMonster]

I think the default unit size is +2. The tank didn't actually drive into the building, but because it's magnified it looks like it did. If you put the units on realistic size you'll see what I mean.

The infantry can't walk through walls, but they can go over them, notice how they slow down consideralbly.

I believe tanks can cross walls. I haven't tried it myself, but I seem to remember reading it in the manual.

Ironicly what you call "not quite real time" is more real than you realize. You see, whenever you give an order there is a command delay, that simulates the time it would actually take to get that order to the men and for them to act on it. You can see how long the delay will be in the unit info screen. The amout of delay is based on experiance and C&C.

[This message has been edited by FunkMonster (edited 08-05-2000).]

[Guest Mirage2k]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Something else I thought of. Why is it that infantry can walk through walls? (I'm still trying out the demo, so shoot me if this has been fixed for the final release) Close Combat had the same thing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

CM assumes that the men are finding some way through a building, that is, a window, a door, a hole in the building, whatever.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Also, not QUITE realtime, is it? I ordered a rifle squad to embark a Sherman and the tank to fast move, but the infantry squad waited until the tank was halfway across the battlefield before chasing after it. Hmmm.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh, yes, the action phase is in real-time. CM models a delay factor in giving your units orders. The delay time (in seconds) is displayed whenever you give a unit orders. This is because in real life orders take time to filter down to the troops, and the troops aren't always gung-ho concerning what those orders tell them to do. In your case, the delay time for the tank was less than the delay for the infantry squad, and so it took off before the squad to reach it.

-Andrew

------------------

Throw me a frickin' smiley, people!

Your one-stop-shop for gaming news is www.SiegersPost.com ! Hit it!

[This message has been edited by Mirage2k (edited 08-05-2000).]

[HankWWIIOnline]

John: You're talking about concessions for gameplay reasons. We assume the soldiers find the entrance to the building, either through a blown out wall, door or window.

Collision detection and LOS is at the center of a tank for, again, gameplay reasons.

For moving groups, I suggest moving the ones that *won't* be stuck out in the open as a group. The ones that *will* be stuck in the open if you were to move all of them as a group, move individually. While still a bit tedious, you can still move 3 or so squads as a group move, instead of 6 individually.

Also, the tank moved quicker than the infantry did because of 'in command' status. You probably ordered the tank to move and also the infantry to embark, but the tank carried out it's orders much more quickly than the infantry. By the time the infantry received their orders, the tank was already bouncing along. Ya gotta check the delay time for orders. The tank probably took 8 seconds to receive the "Move Fast" command, while the infantry took 33 seconds to receive the "Embark" command. Hope this helps. Basically...keep playing the demo and read the readme a couple times. You'll get the hang of it.

------------------

College Football approaches...

www.getfanatical.com

[Tiger]

Try having the tank "pause" so the infantry will have time to climb on....or even better just give the entire squad a minute to climb on while the tank remains stationary . How many seconds would it take 12 men to climb on and grab hold of something secure on a tank? Even men with a heavy weapon or two....

and wouldn't the thoughtful tank commander take a second or two to ask if everyone is ready?

-Tiger

[HankWWIIOnline]

LOL Mirage...beat me.

------------------

College Football approaches...

www.getfanatical.com

[Blue Macs]

+ and- also cycle through all of your units so no-one is forgotten

[Mr. W W]

I can't speak to the tediousness of things, but I regularly jump between the 1, 3 and 7 views, with bases turned on and paths shown, to avoid leaving anyone exposed on accident. I turn the bases off for the replay.

I also use the PAUSE order when I am embarking on a vehicle I want to have move before the end of the turn. I try to keep aware of the command delay at all times - that was frustrating at first, but I am used to it now.

I would still like to see a roster of some kind, just to keep organised and stuff, but if they never make one I will still love this game.

[David Aitken]

To hell with rosters. Combat Mission's interface is beautifully minimalist, and I wouldn't change a thing about it. I don't need a hundred-and-one different statistics panels cluttering up my screen.

I have never had any difficulty finding units, even when I was playing at 800x600 resolution. You can keep platoons together by looking at the command lines. Each platoon HQ has lines going out to his squads.

John, some advice:

1. Read the manual.

2. Use the forum search functions if you have questions on a particular subject.

3. Get used to playing the game before you start asking for it to be renamed Close Combat 3D.

David

[HankWWIIOnline]

Also, I find generally that you pretty much know where your forces are(Generally speaking ). A quick way to find troops in a vicinity is to "Lasso" them with the mouse. You'll see the box outlines of squads, then you can click on them individually.

------------------

College Football approaches...

www.getfanatical.com

[Flipper]

College football rule's !!!!!you da man!

[deanco]

I too didn't get why everybody moved in straight lines when you bandboxed. Now I like it that way, they stay in formation.

DeanCo--

[John]

Wow, kicked up a hornet's nest here.

What I meant by tanks knocking down walls is that, if a tank drives up to a wooden shack, it could crash through the wall. Infantry can climb over low walls, but they wouldn't be able to go straight through like a tank could. Just an idea.

I didn't realise about the 'in command' thing. Sorry. Next time I'll try to keep my squads near their command units.

I also didn'trealise that the units are magnified, although I did realise that the three-man symbol for a squad actually represents a larger group of men.

In future I will try having the tank pause and wait for the infantry. I also use various views, but I will use the bases.

I know I'm lazy to complain about having to move units individually, and when I play the game, I manage by moving the units individually or in small groups. But it would be nice not to have to, eh?

And, David:

1. I have read the online manual, but,as this is a demo I'm playing, perhaps I've missed something

2. Sorry if I misused the forum, but I had no specific questions.

3. I'm not asking for Close Combat 3D. However, you can't deny the similarities that are already there, and that Close Combat had some good features. I stand by my request for a roster. I like minimal interfaces as much as anyone, but I think it would benefit from a roster, preferably one that can be tucked away when you don't want to use it.

[Potential Italian Player]

Hold on

Hold John, John hold on

It's gonna be alright

You gonna win the fight

When you're by yourself

And there's no-one else

You just tell yourself

To hold on

When you're one

Really one

You get things done

Like they never been done

So hold on

Hold on

(John Lennon 1940-1980)

Tony. Proud to be a Junior Member .

[Los]

Don't worry about it John it's no big deal.

RE: Infantry walking through walls etc, there aren't any model animations for actually depicting the infantry scampering ove rthe tops of walls, So that's why they look like they're walking through walls. Though the underlying math (delay times, terrain effects or what not) are being calculated by the program.

p.s. there's a lot more stuff in the written manual than you'll find online.

Los

[John]

Tony, cool poem! Thanks.

Los, I can see now why infantry can seem to be walking through walls, but that's not exactly what I mean.

Imagine this: a high wooden fence. Because it's so high, infantry will have quite a job getting over the top, right. But along comes a Sherman tank, and this will have no trouble just driving straight through, knocking the fenceover, allowing infantry to move through the gap. The same would not apply to, for example, a heavy stone wall, or the side of a bunker.

Maybe I'm just being stupid.

[MrPeng]

About platoon movement: you can plot moves for everyone in the platoon at once, and then fine tune moves for individual units in that platoon. Double click the platoon HQ to have all units selected. Plot the group move. Then click somewhere not on one of the units in the group to deselect group movement. Then select an individual unit (the pesky zook team that waltzed 15m beyond the cover of the treeline), and click on the waypoint marker and drag it back to the treeline. Maybe a bit more effort than you care for, but with some practice I have gotten pretty quick about it. First gross plotting for the whole gang, then fine tune.

Peng

P.S. Get off yer arse and buy the game, quit yer belly-achin, search the forum, read a lot from people like Fionn, Mark IV, Joe Shaw, KwazyDog, Moon, WildBill Wilder, Captain Foobar and others of that ilk, Oh and of course BTS. They know of what they speak. Pay no attenion to the cranky people, NEVER USE SMILIES, and KILL KILL KILL.

------------------

A Journey of a thousand miles starts with a single gunshot wound to the foot.

[John]

I use that method you talk about of setting a group move, then fine tuning them individually. Another one I use is having them moving them into position before sending them all off, but as group movement clears all other moves, this takes a full turn to do.

P.S:

I NEVER buy a game unless I am completely satisfied it is a good game, and this involves playing it first. That is why I am still playing the demo.

I can see that some of my gripes were unfounded, and for that I apologise. But the one about the roster STILL STANDS.

Who are all those blokes or blokesses (blokesses?) you told me to read about. I'm reading The Art Of War by Sun Tzu. Will that do? And what's wrong with smilies?

[This message has been edited by John (edited 08-06-2000).]

[Guest Michael emrys]

Peng was only kidding you. Actually he LOVES smilies. In fact, if you were to send him an e-mail full of smilies, he'd probably remember you in his will.

Michael

[Teutonicc]

John,

If you are into rip roaring belly laughing fun I would suggest a search on MrPeng or Smilies. As for the people he mentions some of them are beta testers and general all around Grognards.

Hey MrPeng who is this Ilk person you are mentioning

------------------

Teutonicc