What is the meaning of "experience" for UAVs?

[exsonic01]

I found out that the purchase point for the UAVs differs when I modified their experience. While I can understand what "experience" means for fire support teams, artillery, and airplanes, I can't understand the meaning of "higher experience" for UAVs... What is difference between green Raven and elite Raven? Where this price difference comes from? I think the experience of operator (air control team or fire support team) should effect on the performance of UAV, but it seems that the elite UAV works better regardless of operator's experience. 

[cool breeze]

Maybe the UAV "spotter"  is only the battlefield representative with radio/datalink contact to the off map (and probably off continent) UAV operator. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by cool breeze

[Michael Emrys]

6 hours ago, cool breeze said:

Maybe the UAV "spotter"  is only the battlefield representative with radio/datalink contact to the off map (and probably off continent) UAV operator. 

If we are talking about the Raven or something equivalent, the on-map spotter is the operator. And his rating I would expect to be the relevant one. However, this is an area ripe for testing if anyone has nothing better to occupy their time.

Michael

[cool breeze]

Maybe as in model dependent.  a lot of them are operated from control stations. 

Edited March 7, 2017 by cool breeze

[exsonic01]

So... the UAV experience is the experience of operator in control stations? Then what is the effect of elite UAV? Elite UAV + elite JTAC or support team or support vehicle would see everything on the battle field? Or it increases the chance to survive of UAVs? 

[MOS:96B2P]

On 3/4/2017 at 10:22 PM, exsonic01 said:

<Snip> What is difference between green Raven and elite Raven? Where this price difference comes from? <Snip>

The only difference I have noticed so far is the time it takes the UAV to get on station and start observing.  Even this difference does not come into play if you order the UAV to observe during the Setup phase.  During the setup phase they get on station and start observing the first turn.  However if you waited and ordered the UAV up later in the game (maybe when you thought all the OpFor Tunguskas were destroyed) there would be a small difference in the time it takes to get on station between the different experience levels.  With a veteran FO and no TRP an elite Gray Eagle takes 6 minutes to get on station and a conscript Gray Eagle takes 7 minutes.  (The game rounds the time to the nearest minute in the UI.)  I have not seen any difference in the time it takes to adjust the observation area or artillery FFE times.  Maybe artillery accuracy?  Or, in the case of the Gray Eagle, maybe the accuracy of the Hellfire missile?          

[Euri]

If there is indeed a difference (weather or not it translates to better performance or a price increase for the UAV), I tend to think it is a coding mistake. It does not make any other real sense.

[Jotte]

This whole topic just makes HAL 9000 voice go off in my brain  

*que Also sprach Zarahustra*

[JonS]

In the real world(tm):

Just like every other piece of equipment, UAVs are operated by people. Just like for every other piece of equipment, people require training, and experience. Just like for every other piece of equipment, providing those people with more training and more experience leads to greater competence.

In the game world(tm):

{left blank as an exercise for the reader}

Edited March 8, 2017 by JonS

[MOS:96B2P]

On 3/7/2017 at 7:57 PM, MOS:96B2P said:

The only difference I have noticed so far is the time it takes the UAV to get on station and start observing.  Even this difference does not come into play if you order the UAV to observe during the Setup phase.  During the setup phase they get on station and start observing the first turn.  However if you waited and ordered the UAV up later in the game (maybe when you thought all the OpFor Tunguskas were destroyed) there would be a small difference in the time it takes to get on station between the different experience levels.  With a veteran FO and no TRP an elite Gray Eagle takes 6 minutes to get on station and a conscript Gray Eagle takes 7 minutes.  (The game rounds the time to the nearest minute in the UI.)  I have not seen any difference in the time it takes to adjust the observation area or artillery FFE times.  Maybe artillery accuracy?  Or, in the case of the Gray Eagle, maybe the accuracy of the Hellfire missile?          

Found one more small difference.  The time to fire a Hellfire missile is about 35 seconds faster for elite over conscript. Still have not noticed a difference in the Hellfire accuracy but did not look at that very much.  There is a pretty big difference in QB purchase and rarity points between conscript and Elite .     

[exsonic01]

3 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

Found one more small difference.  The time to fire a Hellfire missile is about 35 seconds faster for elite over conscript. Still have not noticed a difference in the Hellfire accuracy but did not look at that very much.  There is a pretty big difference in QB purchase and rarity points between conscript and Elite .     

Thank you for all those tests MOS. I'm trying to find the relation between UAV experience and detection ability - how fast / how many enemies are detected. There is definitely relationship between experience of JTAC or fire support team and detection ability. But not sure about UAV experience.  

[MOS:96B2P]

7 minutes ago, exsonic01 said:

Thank you for all those tests MOS. I'm trying to find the relation between UAV experience and detection ability - how fast / how many enemies are detected. There is definitely relationship between experience of JTAC or fire support team and detection ability. But not sure about UAV experience.  

That relationship would be interesting to know about.  I suspect the detection ability may be based on the ground controller and if the observe mission is an area or point mission, page 11 of the CMBS game manual (not engine manual).  Please post anything you find out.

On the subject of JTAC they are very good at working with all aircraft but not so much with the UAV / artillery combination.  One of the things UAVs do well is to call in artillery on spotted OpFor.  However the JTAC FFE times are much longer than a FO with the same soft factors.  A different FO with a PDA or vehicle link to the JTAC controlled UAV would have to do the arty part.  Also JTACs are another expense.  I often just use FOs.             

[exsonic01]

12 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

That relationship would be interesting to know about.  I suspect the detection ability may be based on the ground controller and if the observe mission is an area or point mission, page 11 of the CMBS game manual (not engine manual).  Please post anything you find out.

On the subject of JTAC they are very good at working with all aircraft but not so much with the UAV / artillery combination.  One of the things UAVs do well is to call in artillery on spotted OpFor.  However the JTAC FFE times are much longer than a FO with the same soft factors.  A different FO with a PDA or vehicle link to the JTAC controlled UAV would have to do the arty part.  Also JTACs are another expense.  I often just use FOs.             

I tested with elite Raven vs conscript Raven, and elite Gray Eagle vs conscript Gray Eagle. All other conditions were same: fine weather, daytime, no EW, iron difficulty. Tested with 2 elite JTAC team. I gave areal recon command to UAVs, and managed 10 redfor vehicles to move into the UAV observation area, 9 T-90AM + 1 SA13. 

It shows that there is a significant difference in detection ability.

1) Elite Raven vs conscript Raven begin with 5:1 observation at 1min, and 7:5 at 10min. 

2) Elite GE vs conscript GE (both recon area 375m diameter) begin with 3:1 observation at 1min, 9:6 at 10 min. Note that the elite GE observed 6 vehicle at 2min. 

So, experience of UAV influences the detection ability. That might compensate the great price difference over UAV experience level.

Plus, 375m diameter GE see better than 400m range Raven, I should have compared with same diameter, that was my mistake. But IMO 25m difference might be negligible, and GE see better than Raven. 

It is also confirmed that elite JTAC detect better than JTAC with lower experience level, so I think it is safe to say, that elite JTAC + elite UAV could maximize the detection ability.

 

I also agree that JTAC bring shorter delay for airstrike when compared to artillery. On the other hand, FO and FSVs work faster for arty than airstrike. This is same for the Russian army. I felt like vehicle FBCB2 or Constellation2 works faster than PDAs, but this needs test to confirm.  

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by exsonic01

[akd]

On 3/6/2017 at 3:43 PM, cool breeze said:

Maybe the UAV "spotter"  is only the battlefield representative with radio/datalink contact to the off map (and probably off continent) UAV operator. 

The only UAV operators that would be on map would be the micro-UAVs (e.g. Raven).  Shadow is a brigade level asset and the Grey Eagles are Air Force assets (I think).  So calling for UAVs is a fuzzy mix of "operating" and "requesting support."  For the micro-UAVs, I would assume that the experience level simply represents the unit's level of training in utilizing UAVs.  Obviously you could have a well-trained FO that was nonetheless inexperienced with using an UAV.

Edited March 10, 2017 by akd

[MOS:96B2P]

10 hours ago, exsonic01 said:

<Snip>  So, experience of UAV influences the detection ability. <Snip> 

It is also confirmed that elite JTAC detect better than JTAC with lower experience level, so I think it is safe to say, that elite JTAC + elite UAV could maximize the detection ability.

<Snip> I felt like vehicle FBCB2 or Constellation2 works faster than PDAs, but this needs test to confirm.  

Well, there goes my idea for buying conscript UAVs I guess    .    

In CMBS a spotter inside a command or observation type vehicle will have quicker call times than if the same spotter was on foot.  There is a link below to a discussion with some times included.  

Thanks for testing and sharing. 

[Bud Backer]

Well that's interesting to confirm. I had a suspicion that it might make a difference simply because they cost more and I figured BFC would not have that happen if it wasn't actually significant. 

[John Kettler]

Guys,

The more I read in threads like this, the more convinced I become that the quality of CISR and FS units can be/is critical. When I buy such assets, I buy the best I can afford and downgrade them only if absolutely forced to do so. This is very important for the Americans, who can find themselves in the hurt locker quickly because of the much larger forces the Russians can field. You'd best do your killing early and often, so you don't get overwhelmed later for failure to do so. You don't want a knife fight with the Russians. This is even more true following AI tweaks resulting in greater likelihood that AFVs with mixed auto cannon and ATGM armament will select Missile over Gun now, in situations where Gun was ill advised and generally got the firer destroyed forthwith, while leaving the enemy tank largely unscathed.

Bud Backer,

Good to see you're back! People have been concerned over your seeming disappearance for so long.

Regards,

John Kettler